which food is best for goldfish, commons and fancies?

[Flaringshutter]

Tocopherol is a natural form of Vitamin E, an organic chemical compound that can also be used as a preservative. It is used in many pet foods, including cat and dog food, especially as a non-toxic alternative to ethoxyquin. It is most commonly extracted from wheat germ and is also found in many nuts and vegetables such as corn and spinach.

OmegaOne does not use imported fish meal in their products, which by law are required to be preserved with ethoxyquin before they enter the country. Instead, since their processing facility is in Alaska, the majority of their fish ingredients come from domestically processed fish, thereby eliminating the need for pre-preserved fish meal.

There are conflicting reports on whether or not Hikari uses ethoxyquin. It was listed on the ingredients for a long time, but recently a few aquarists I've spoken with have received email responses from Hikari saying that the ingredients containing ethoxy are no longer used.

If you do end up choosing New Life, I would recommend the Large Fish formula, rather than the Thera-A formula. The protein in the Thera-A is a little too high for adult goldfish at 38% and can lead to too much weight gain. The standard large fish formula is better, at 34%, more suited to maintaining an adult goldfish at a healthy weight. As far as garlic in the food - garlic can help discourage parasitic infestation from setting in and it is great as an appetite stimulant, but it definitely won't cure an infestation or kill parasites.

NLS does make a goldfish formula, and I've heard pretty good things about it from other keepers. It's a little low in fat for my taste (5%) as opposed to the OmegaOne (10%) so OmegaOne might be better for active fancies since they seem to need a bit more fat in their food than commons, and better for pond fish who need to survive a winter. However, New Life would be good for low-activity fish like bubble eyes and tosakin. I do have to say, I have heard some keepers complaining that their whites have yellowed up when using NLS, though they did see oranges and reds get much richer.

My top-recommended foods are Pro-Gold, OmegaOne, Hikari, Dainichi, and the Mazuri gels. I think they're all excellent foods and it's a matter of taste as to which one you choose. There's a new goldfish food out from Hikari called Saki-Hikari, and it has a lot of breeders excited. It's still a little difficult to locate from what I hear, and I haven't tried it. We'll see.

One other thought - Evolution Aqua, which makes koi food, has a line of food out that has no fish meal in it. All their protein comes from worms, crustaceans and invertebrates. It was developed to mimic a carp's natural diet. I've also heard excellent things about this food. Though if I was going to feed it to goldfish I would grind it up smaller first, as it's meant for koi and the pellets are likely too large for goldfish. I'm definitely going to try this food in the future.

 

[reptileguy2727]

Actually recent studies have shown that the allicin in garlic can prevent certain enzymatic activities in parasites and actively kill them, it is more than an appetite stimulent or parasite preventative.

So the Thera+A would be good for growing juveniles and sub-adults, just not as a long-term food for adults.

There is evidence that shows that higher fat percentages (like 10%) can cause fatty deposits in the body that can be lethal. This could be a huge cause of death in fish since effectively none receive necropsies.

Thanks for the information on Tocopherols. So Omega One does add ethoxyquin to their food, unlike NLS which only has it in the meals as required by law and simply admits it is there.

 

[Flaringshutter]

Reptile, you can't assume that OmegaOne adds it to their food directly. They may use some shrimp meal or krill that is pre-preserved with ethoxy. We know it's in the food since they list it as an ingredient, the rest is speculation. Note that koi keepers, who have been feeding commercially produced food containing ethoxy to their thousand-dollar koi for decades, don't freak out about it. The quality of the food is the most important point - be it NLS, OmegaOne, Hikari, whatever. I think we can agree on that. When the commercial processors make a goldfish food without ethoxy - perhaps newer preservatives like tocopherols are a good alternative - we can all rejoice and move to that food. The fact is that all the foods we like contain ethoxy in some quantity, and it's impossible to know exactly how much.

I'm not sure where you're getting your information about fat deposits, but I don't agree at all. All the research I have done, including speaking to marine researchers and breeders, points to a goal of about 10% fat in the food. Since fats are the main energy source in food, it's important to use a food that includes at least 5% fat and generally not more than 15%. Fancies will also benefit from a larger fat percentage, as it will help fill out their general round shape, especially for show fish. Fat deposits play an important role in pond fish, providing energy stores for them to use during the winter when they are not actively feeding. Finally, for larger and more active tank fish like commons, comets, wakin and shubunkins, their high activity level and large mass requires more energy than the slower, smaller ranchu, bubble eye, celestial, tosakin, etc. Lethal fat deposits are nearly unheard of in carp and goldfish except in cases of extreme overfeeding or feeding during winter when the water is too cold. In fact, too little fat in the diet can cause deficiencies in fat-soluble vitamins such as vitamins A, K and D.

I'd love to see the articles you're referring to about garlic. I'm always excited about new research, and if adding garlic to our fish's diet can improve their resistance to parasites that would be a huge advantage, especially for pond fish keepers.

 

[Reefscape]

No, but I have been asked that more than once.

I don't want people to think I am stuck on one brand. I can't wait for a better food to come out because that means it will be EVEN better. And there are a few ways NLS could be better. But the experience I have had while using it exclusively is unbelievable sometimes. I just want to share that with others so that they can know it is not just another overhyped company with about the same food. I want people to know that, although I expect no one to switch to it just because of what I say or never question the results they get, but to know that it is worth a good trial and that worst case you find it isn't best for your fish and you can always switch back or try some other food you haven't used before.

LOL....i think people are aware of the brand by now...

On that, we have to remember that even though we have our own choice of fish food, what we use should not do is be constantly putting a brand on people all the time...or always stating that one brand is better than another, as its simply one persons opinion / experience. With the internet fully available to everyone, people are free to research their own foods, at their will and not have one perticular brand in their face all the time..

A suggestion would be to write your own review of the product, post it on AC, and leave people to make their own informed choice, rather than filling lots of threads with the same brand name. That way, any discussion points people want to say to you about "your" experience, they can ask in that thread.

Looking at it from an aquarist point of view, if a perticular brand of food is constantly in my face, it makes me NOT want to choose it, effectivly bad advertising...but, i suppose thats just me and how i see products being promoted...

** Reefscape slowly backs away from the Freshwater Forum **

 

[Kashta]

Thank you, Niko. I was getting the same vibe from reading all these testimonials.

 

[reptileguy2727]

There is an article on my experience with NLS in my blog.

The garlic articles are all primary research articles out of scientific journals. Multiple experiments showed its ability to actually actively kill parasites, both externally and internally. In addition to this many aquarists have found the same results in their experience. Things like treating white spot in a reef tank simply by switching to NLS Thera+A. People who simply feed it all the time have much fewer problems overall.

Yes, the fat would be important for wintering fish. But we can't understand the full scale of the problem since effectively no fish get necropsies done. So although in certain cases it is important, high fat levels all the time could be causing problems that we are not seeing.

If one food has questionable preseratives (as in: when are they adding them and how much? You said yourself they use American meals so it is more likely they are adding it to the food as a whole than that they are importing at least one of their meals) and has artificial colors and a few other brands don't, I am using the ones that don't and are at least as good if not better to begin with.

 

[Reefscape]

There is an article on my experience with NLS in my blog.

The garlic articles are all primary research articles out of scientific journals. Multiple experiments showed its ability to actually actively kill parasites, both externally and internally. In addition to this many aquarists have found the same results in their experience. Things like treating white spot in a reef tank simply by switching to NLS Thera+A. People who simply feed it all the time have much fewer problems overall.

Yes, the fat would be important for wintering fish. But we can't understand the full scale of the problem since effectively no fish get necropsies done. So although in certain cases it is important, high fat levels all the time could be causing problems that we are not seeing.

If one food has questionable preseratives (as in: when are they adding them and how much? You said yourself they use American meals so it is more likely they are adding it to the food as a whole than that they are importing at least one of their meals) and has artificial colors and a few other brands don't, I am using the ones that don't and are at least as good if not better to begin with.

Documented evidence please... ( ref treating ich in a marine tank by changing to NLS )

If your NLS experience is in your blog, then i dont think we need the constant advertising / pushing of the product in this manner through all the threads, and let people read that, then make their own decisions...

 

[reptileguy2727]

It was not formally documented, it was the experience of a couple of aquarists I talked to, I don't know how you would want that documented. The one I talked to more recently and remember better had white spot on a yellow tang that wasn't going away. He switched to NLS Thera+A and within couple weeks it was completely gone.

It also treated internal parasites in my discus, something discus are veyr prone to. A couple discus were eating but losing weight. I moved them to a different tank but kept the same water change schedule. I switched from one NLS to the Thera+A and within a few weeks they were back to normal and went back in with the others. The only change was the extra garlic in the food. Jack Wattley suggests using garlic to treat internal parasites in discus in his column in TFH.

I bring it up when people ask (like in threads titled 'which food is best for goldfish, commons, and fancies?') just like everyone else does with whatever food they like. Then people start bringing up things that either aren't true, or ask me about it, etc. Just like people are discussing Omega One here, sometimes discussions develop about NLS. That is the whole point of a forum, share experiences and knowledge. Although it may seem repetitive to people who are more active or have been here longer, every time more people learn and that is the most important thing.

I will try to remember to lead people to my blog and their site rather than starting out by dumping tons of text in a thread.

 

[Reefscape]

Things like treating white spot in a reef tank simply by switching to NLS Thera+A. People who simply feed it all the time have much fewer problems overall.
....

It was not formally documented, it was the experience of a couple of aquarists I talked to, I don't know how you would want that documented. The one I talked to more recently and remember better had white spot on a yellow tang that wasn't going away. He switched to NLS Thera+A and within couple weeks it was completely gone.

....

As this is not fact, then, it would be best not to make such comments / statements in an open forum, as it could of simply been coincidence, and this "could" lead people down the wrong path, and them people buy a product which is of no use or benefit to them.

White spot in marine fish, especially in Surgeon Fish can simply come and go on its own accord. Thats documented as fact, and that is what we should be working on.

Thanks...( hopefully leave the NLS adverts behind us now )

 

[reptileguy2727]

That is what happened (and it is not the only case). White spot was present, garlic was added to the food, the white spot went away. Once would be one thing, but it has happened over and over (I have talked to numerous people who have had the same experience with one species or another, as well as my own experience with discus). I guess you may want to talk to Jack Wattley because he definitely believes and suggests the use of garlic to treat internal parasites. But I guess publishing something in TFH and being the most respected man in discus and finding garlic can cure parasites is just coincidence. That and I guess the primary research published in scientific journals was all also coincidence.

Believe what you want, but don't just deny something because there isn't undeniable fact to support it staring you in the face.

One of the most valuable functions of a forum is the ability to directly interact with other aquarists. This means that information that may not be so supported that it is in books and is undeniable fact can be shared. This just means there is that much more information available for everyone and they can all make better informed decisions.

Anyone dealing with internal or external parasites:
There are many options but in addition to the proven chemical medications adding garlic to the diet has also been shown to be effective as well. Like any treatment it is not 100%, but it is an option, and I good one if you can't use chemical medications. Your options include using fresh garlic, garlic additives, or prepared foods that include garlic. I only have experience with NLS's Thera+A, so I am not sure how effective all the different methods.