Why not mix Lakes/How to mix lakes

[mooman]

I've seen several threads over the last few weeks dealing with questions about mixing African "Rift Lake" Cichlids (nod to the Vermont contingent). My own experience with rift lake cichlids is limited and largely academic, so I will merely play the devils advocate here. Please give SPECIFIC reasons why you can't or SPECIFIC instances where you have mixed lakes.

Questions I'd like answered:

People on this forum often advocate mixing fish in a community tank as long as a "stable" ph and temperature are kept, yet these same people consider it inappropriate to mix cichlids from different lakes even if the water chemistry is kept stable at a midpoint between the two lakes. Why is it ok to make every other tropical fish adjust to a slightly alien water chemistry, but not rift lake cichlids?

I am well aware of the different diets required by Haps, Mbuna, and many Tanganyikan species. I am also aware of the dangers of feeding a high protien diet to strictly herbiverous fish (malawi bloat). My question is, if care is taken to choose fish with similar dietary needs from different lakes, why can't they be kept together.

We all know that different species of rifters have different levels of aggression. If care is taken to choose species that have similar aggression levels from different lakes, why can't they be kept together?

Personally I would never mix lakes mainly because I am a bit of a purist and consider my tanks a window into different biomes. Sometimes it's hard to keep our personal preferences from coloring our advise on this forum (Lord knows I do it all the time). I would however like to keep this thread FACT BASED and CONGENIAL if at all possible.

 

[NatakuTseng]

The diet as has been addressed is a large issue. Second is the different behaviors of the fish involved. Malawis are vastly more aggressive than tangs, and display different aggression signs than the tangs do, and vice versa. Thus tangs do not know if they are pissing off a malawi and a malawi doesn't know when its pissing off a tang. Size of the fish also vary greatly, as a GENERAL rule of thumb, Malawis attain a much larger average size than most tangs do. Again there are exceptions. Tangs also do need a slightly higher pH than malawis. Tangs really need a pH no lower than 8.0 to thrive, while Malawis can do fine down to 7.5ish with no problems. Also just on a natural stand point, with those lakes being so close to each other, you will not find any of the cichlid speicies inhabiting BOTH lakes. Tangs are stictly tangs, while malawis are strictly malawis. For instance you will never find a Julidochromis species in lake malawi, while you will never find a Labiochromis species in Tanganyika. (Just using these two lakes as the examples, the same types of things go with Victoria, however most victorians and malawis are very compatible).

Mixing them is asking for problems, with aggression and health issues. Sure they may get along fine for a month or a year, but eventually problems will arise between them.

 

[mooman]

Cool, this is what I'm looking for. I hadn't thought of the differences in threat displays. Thanks Nataku. Anybody else?

Devils Advocate: What about keeping a single small species of mbuna from Lake malawi (Lets use the common, adaptable, and cheap Yellow Lab as an example) in a Tang tank instead of an expensive indiginous Tropheus species? Other tankmates would include shellies, and comprecips. Ph and hardness adjusted for Tang inhabitants. Whould this not be healthier for the fish involved since the Labs are not as strictly herbiverous as the Tropheus they would be standing in for?

 

[theblueprint]

great thread moonman....

 

[nascar2]

Mixing Lakes

You can see my fish listed below.

I've had this tank for six months now. I started out setting up a Malawi tank and ended up getting the Hap. sp. 44 Red Tail to go with the mbuna. I was looking to add more fish to the tank when I saw the color of the Hap. 44. I asked the LFS if they would work out with my current fish. (They only carry African Cichlids, and I trust their advice. They are not a "normal" LFS. They are set up as a showroom, and very helpful.)

I've had fish from both lakes holding fry. They all get a flake food and I give them ghost shrimp once a week. I do see some aggression between the L. sp. SRT Kimpuna and the Hap. 44 males. They often display to each other and lock lips but, they have not torn fins, or chase each other relentlessly. I don't know what will happen a year from now, but they seem fine today.

I am glad you started this thread, I had some of the same questions after reading different posts this last week. :clap:

 

[judgemax]

i agree this is a good thread, as a begginer into the cichlid catagory ..i have been running an experiment with mixed lakes... i do get displays but no liplocking or damage..as i reasearched i found info on everything except the display pattern i hadnt thought about that...i agree good point!

 

[TipStylez]

yeah i just recently started up a tank with 2 small still young cichlids. ones a Melanochromis Auratus from lake Malawi, and one Sciaenochromis Ahli from East Malawi somthing like that. There only about 1inch big. dont know if thats much of a diffrence from lakes but at first when introdouced to the tank, they chased eachother around but never was able to catch one another, now they just swim around like the other ones not even there.

 

[PumaWard]

Nat had the reasoning why it's best not to mix them.


While it IS possible to mix species from both lakes, it should be done with extreme care, and, IMO, at least a years experience with the species you want to keep together before you actually keep them. Sure, species profiles and references are great, but hands on experience will tell you whether or not you should mix them.

I generally discourage mixing them, simply put, because those who ask if they can be generally are new to the rift lakes, or cichlids all together. They do not have the experience, IMO, that is necessary to fully understand the behaviors of the fish they are throwing together.

 

[kay-bee]

First, I'll state that what seems to work in one mixed-lake tank might not achieve the same results in another, and what seems to work now might not work later on as fish mature.

Very unorthodox (I know~!) but I have a mixed lake tank (180g) with no noticeable ill-effects (...yet...)...Initially intended as a mixed frontosa/crytocara moorii tank, but has recently been used to grow out some n. venustus and d. compressiceps ('malawi eye-biter') (the last two species have been in the tank for a couple of months).

Each of the species is represented by 4 to 6 fish. 3 sub-adult c. moorii are currently the largest (and most dominant) fish in the tank (5" to 6"), with the remaining fish being fast-growing juveniles. Ph is maintained within the 8.4-8.6 range.

They are provided a high-protein diet and the usually slow moving frontosas (currently larger than the venustus & d. compressiceps) have adapted to same quick pace eating-style of the malawi's, and have no problems getting their fair share of quick sinking food. The frontosas, however, are seriously disadvantaged at attaining floating food of any kind, so I stick to food that makes it down to their level.

No significant aggression issues to date, as most interaction is within the same species. The frontosas predominantly occupy the lower portion of the tank, the d. compressiceps the upper portion and the other species swim in both levels.

Anticipated future developments include the venustus becoming more dominant and aggressive as they grow larger (all fish are expected to be at 5"+ by the end of the year). I think that general aggression within the species will increase as males reach sexual maturity and at that point the potential for interspecies aggression increases as well.

Ultimately the venusus and eye-biters will be moved to their own tank, probably, probably a 125g (although I have no idea how I'll be able to catch the latter, they can be super quick).

Most of the cichlids I keep, however, are mbuna's and possibly with the exception of yellow labs, I wouldn't mix them with any of the aforementioned fish (due to significant dietary and aggression disparities).

 

[scholar]

I have three africaaner tanks and they are all mixed lakes and mixed diet, Ph 7.8. I do watch their diets. They all make babies. The key is not have killer types and understock which I would have done anyway even if they were not mixed lake.


No auratus or chipokee. I also have stayed away from zebras. Mainly for their size and washed out colors, bu tnot for their slight increase aggression.