Your UGF experiences

[reptileguy2727]

Kuthoht:
I don't know of any freshwater fish that will eat feces at all. Which species have you seen observed this in?

 

[J double R]

Debris is visible. If the only debris in my tank is invisible than I guess my substrate and filtration combination is very effective.

The sand keeps the debris on top, the flow keeps it moving until the filters grab it. So you are right, there is lots of debris, but it is all in the filter media where it is supposed to be for easy removal.

Again, not all types of sand will compact and cause problems.

what kinds don't? enlighten us.. please

 

[Sploke]

Sploke:
The best form of mechanical filtration is pressurized so that it actually forces the substrate through. This is the case with canisters, but not with UGFs or most HOBs.

I would argue that a canister pump does not create any more pressure than a powerhead in the tank running a RFUG. A canister pump is effectively a powerhead, just running on a closed loop rather than physically inside the tank.

 

[reptileguy2727]

I haven't had any compaction in Estes' Marine Sand, the only sand I use or recommend. I have not had a single problem at all in any of the tanks I have it in. I have not had compaction, filter problems, toxic anoxic pockets, not any problem at all. This is after at least two years of sand in all my tanks and a very long list of different fish in those tanks. It makes cleaning easier so water quality is higher. It is more natural.

 

[jm1212]

Go on to an advanced goldfish only forum and ask if anyone has had a goldfish choke on gravel. Your experience is very valuable, but just because it is your experience does not make it fact.

The issues with sand have everything to do with the type of sand and not just sand in general. Small grained sand and uneven grain sizes can cause compaction. Malaysian trumpet snails will keep it clean and aerated for you. The sand that I use is just large enough to stay aerated and prevent toxic anoxic pockets of hydrogen sulfide producing bacteria from developing. This is why I suggest one brand of sand and not just any sand (especially not non-aquairum sands). Again, sand being kicked up and getting into the filters has a lot to do with the type of sand. Larger heavier sands will not have this problem. In addition, there are few fish big enough to do this. I have had sand with oscars, peacock cichlids, a 20" tiretrack eel, bichirs, and many other fish. I have never had any issue of health based on the sand at all nor have I ever had any issue with sand in the filters.

If eaten sand is much safer and more likely to pass through the digestive system than gravel. If you have an individual fish that for some reason develops a habit of swallowing sand then yes, you may not want to use sand.

Again, what sand have you used? In how many tanks? For how long?

Which fish have you watched eat and actually swallow feces?

this is pretty funny...your experience does not make it fact.

all sand compacts. you preach about being "natural," but truly "natural" sand is uneven. sand that has 100% conformity would have to be manufactured. not at all natural.

i use AquaQuartz sand. My tank with the UGF has been set up for 5 years and i have yet to have a problem. I have also taken care of a tank that is older than i am and has been running a UGF with 0 problems. i am not saying that sand is worse than gravel, i am just saying that you cant put sand on a pedestal as being the "super substrate." what substrate goes in a tank is 100% subjective and no one substrate is better than another.

 

[reptileguy2727]

A canister filter is a closed system. The water is FORCED through the media. This means that every bit of water goes through the media. In HOBs and UGFs the water will go over or around the media, or in UGFs one spot will become clogged with debris and the water then rushes through another area, reducing how effectively the water is cleaned. This is mainly an issue with mechanical filtration, especially fine mechanical filtration and polishing.

 

[Temeraire]

If debris on the substrate is becoming that much of a problem it's probably time for you to vacuum your substrate. Where is all of this debris coming from anyway? I don't think fish just declare one area their bathroom.

 

[jm1212]

A canister filter is a closed system. The water is FORCED through the media. This means that every bit of water goes through the media. In HOBs and UGFs the water will go over or around the media, or in UGFs one spot will become clogged with debris and the water then rushes through another area, reducing how effectively the water is cleaned. This is mainly an issue with mechanical filtration, especially fine mechanical filtration and polishing.

water goes through the media of a UGF also...its called the gravel. every where the water flows in the gravel, bacteria are eating away at ammonia and nitrite.

and without proper maintenance, ANY filter will become clogged. that is a fact.

 

[jm1212]

If debris on the substrate is becoming that much of a problem it's probably time for you to vacuum your substrate. Where is all of this debris coming from anyway? I don't think fish just declare one area their bathroom.

you should be vacuuming your substrate every week with the water change any way, not just when it builds up.

 

[reptileguy2727]

"all sand compact"
This is not true. The Estes' Marine Sand I use does not compact.

No, my experience does not make anything fact. But it says a lot, and with no real evidence to the contrary there isn't anything else to say. If you want primary research articles out of scientific articles I don't have them.

When I say more natural I mean when the options are bare, gravel, or sand the sand is the natural option. This doesn't mean you have to go to the Amazon River and collect sand for your Amazonian tank for it to be natural, it means in reference to grain size sand is more natural than gravel.

At this point it is obvious that some people simply won't move on past UGFs and gravel no matter what until they have severe problems in their tanks they can't blame on anything else. So I will not waste my or their time on this any longer.

Anyone interested in some more information on sand, my experiences, etc. just give me a PM, I will be happy to help you.