Have angelfish questions!!

[Coral Keeper]

I need to know as much as you guys can tell me about angelfish. Can They be kept in groups of 6 or more? Can they be kept with all kinds of diff fish and can they be with plants, can they be kept in a 10 gallon heavily planted tank?? So i need to know as much as everyone can give me about these fish. Thanks!!! Can they be kepy with inverts like shrimp and snails and other inverts??

[jpappy789]

Even one angelfish in a 10 gal. will need a lot more space eventually...most recommend 30 gallons for one angel

[Coral Keeper]

Should they be kept in groups?

[jpappy789]

I'll let some one more experienced answered for sure but think it is either one, a breeding pair, 5, or 7

[ronw007]

Angels can be kept in groups or you can also keep one angel as well. I think a 10 gallon would be way too small for 6 angels, unless they are juveniles and then you would eventually need a bigger tank. They are ok with plants. They do ok with most fish, I have some of mine housed with cory cats, pleco's, kuhli loaches, clown loaches, and synodontis petricola. Of course I have many tanks, so not all these fish our housed in one tank. They are ok with snails, but I think the angels would think the shrimp are food.

[Coral Keeper]

Well the reson im asking all this is because my cuz had a friend that has tons of angels and they had baby's and they are giving them away for free. so i asked for 6 babys. when they get bigger ill sell them. Dos anyone els got any more info for me about angelfish?

[davexstumpe]

I think it's better to go with odd numbers. So I'd suggest maybe going with 5, and i wouldn't put 5 in anything less than a 55 gallon.


I'd wait for JM to get back to you, everytime i see angelfish posts he seems to know what he's talking about.

[jpappy789]

What size are they now? Because 6 of the angels that are sized like ones in lfs ais going to be way too crowded, and a lot of those are still juvies

[Coral Keeper]

I think they are about half an inch to one inch, why is it better to have odd numbers?

[Firebelly__girl]

I wouldnt keep 6 angels in a 10 gallon tank anymore than a few days. You even said you wanted different fish with them so it will be way overstocked. For 6 I would say you might as well just start out with a 55 and grow them out the right way then sell them or whatever your doing.

[Coral Keeper]

Will this work? Sell 5 out of 6 and keep one and how long can i keep one angle in a 10 gallon planted tank?

[ronw007]

Would you be keeping any other fish in with the 1 angel. If that would be the only fish, I would not keep it in the ten gallon once it gets to be about quarter body size.

[Firebelly__girl]

^ I agree, even if his body is the size of his quarter, his fins are still long, some get the height OF a 10 gallon.

[Coral Keeper]

They are going to be with 3 fish. 2 guppys and one danio. Dos anyone want to buy one? ill be getting them tomorrow. Ill post pics of them. but im not sure what kind of angel they are.

[ronw007]

I would think the angel would bother the guppies, I think you need a bigger tank. I have a couple hundred juvenille angels right now, I am actually trying to sell them myself. That sound's like your best bet, try to sell them. If they are DD Black, Koi, or Albino you shouldn't have any problem selling them.

[Coral Keeper]

If they are diff than the ones that you listed that means they arent that good? If they arent the ones that you listed above what dos that mean?? Why wont it be easy to sell them if they arent the ones that you listed ubove?

[Coral Keeper]

Anyone els got any info for me about angelfish?

[wataugachicken]

just as an example, i have a 9 month old super veil angel, and he was already over 10 inches from top to bottom at 6 months old. now i think he is pushing a foot in height. he was kept in a 55g tank, and very rarely spread his fins out and seemed cramped. now, in a 150g tank, his fins are spread all the time. a 10g is not only too small for long-term, but cramped conditions can cause fin deformities, even in standard-finned angels.

[Coral Keeper]

Dos anyone want to buy a angel fish or trade?

[Star_Rider]

You , my friend, are going to need a much larger tank.
as far as these angels..you may be getting pea sized oned..you can keep these in a 10 for a few weeks.

they will out grow this tank as will a single angel.

a single should not be kept in anything less than a 20 and a pair in nothon less than a 29.

not all angels will grow to 11-12" superveils are different.

I have several angel pairs as well as singles.

keeping 6 may eventually lead into a pair then you will have some serious space issues.

I keep 2 pair in a 55 and they have pretty much divided the tank in half.

the bn's are fine as are other inhabitants..tho they may get terrorized during spawns.

I also have some very large males..the wild scalare are the tallest and in a 29 they don;t have a ton of room above and below when in full display..easily reaching 9-10"

you need a larger tank...did I say that already?

[Coral Keeper]

Ok, so i gess ill have to sell all of them. do you think i can put them in my 90 gallon pond out side with gold fish and lilies and a few other kind of plants? Its bilt in the ground. Dos anyone want to buy a angelfish or trade for it?

[wataugachicken]

you could put them in a pond, BUT!!!!!!!

-they will be easy prey for any predators that come around - raccoons, cats, birds, turtles
-the pond would have to be adequately filtered and maintained
-the temperature would have to be stable and tropical.

Honestly, i think you should just tell your friend that you can't take the fish.

[Coral Keeper]

The pond is cold. Dos anyone want to buy a angelfish? Or do a trade?

[Coral Keeper]

I just got the angel fish about 5 min ago!!!!!!! But he only gave me 2, ill post pics when they are in the tank, they are in the bag floating in the tank. The are silver colored. They look souper cool!!!!!!!

[Coral Keeper]

Im so exited!!!! :headbang2::headbang2::headbang2::grinyes::grinyes ::grinyes:

[Coral Keeper]

Here are the pics!!!! What kind of angelfish is it? Is it a male or female? When i get new fish i get so exited that i feel like i can get a hart attack LOL! enjoy!! :headbang2::headbang2::headbang2::headbang2::headb ang2::headbang2::headbang2::headbang2::headbang2:: headbang2::headbang2::headbang2::headbang2:
http://s230.photobucket.com/albums/ee85/Coral-Keeper/?action=view&current=Picture192.jpg
http://s230.photobucket.com/albums/ee85/Coral-Keeper/?action=view&current=Picture191.jpg
http://s230.photobucket.com/albums/ee85/Coral-Keeper/?action=view&current=Picture190.jpg
http://s230.photobucket.com/albums/ee85/Coral-Keeper/?action=view&current=Picture188.jpg
http://s230.photobucket.com/albums/ee85/Coral-Keeper/?action=view&current=Picture187.jpg
http://s230.photobucket.com/albums/ee85/Coral-Keeper/?action=view&current=Picture179.jpg
http://s230.photobucket.com/albums/ee85/Coral-Keeper/?action=view&current=Picture178.jpg
http://s230.photobucket.com/albums/ee85/Coral-Keeper/?action=view&current=Picture177.jpg
Again enjoy!!!:headbang2::headbang2::headbang2::headbang 2:

[ronw007]

They look like standard fin gold angels to me. Pretty common type of angelfish.

[wataugachicken]

it's very difficult to tell sex until they are older. when they get into a breeding mood, their breeding tubes will extend and if you know what to look for you might be able to sex them. sometimes males will have a different forehead shape, or a more orange coloration along the top line, but it's pretty hard to tell.

[Coral Keeper]

How big do these kind of angel fish grow? What size do they have to be when the 10 gallon is going to be too small? How old do they have to be and how big do they have to be when they will start to breed?

[Draal5]

You have standard golds they will grow slower than other angels but will get to be 3-4 in body size double that with the fins.
Do not keep them with your guppies they will be a quick snack.
looking at the pictures I think you have 2 females.
You could keep them in a 29 with out any problems

[Coral Keeper]

Why will the guppys be a quick snack?? The angelfish are little babys. So when the angelfish will be full grown there fins will be 7 inches top to bottom?

[Coral Keeper]

Whats the smallest kind of fresh water angelfish? How big dos the smallest angelfish grow and what is the smallest kind of angelfish called?

[rufbabe]

I have one question also!

After two angels make a couple its possible they form couple again with some others? Or they stay always with the same till death break tehm appart?

[Coral Keeper]

Can my 2 angelfish eat or kill ghost shrimp and cherrie shrimp??

[Lupin]

Can my 2 angelfish eat or kill ghost shrimp and cherrie shrimp??
Yes.

[saturday]

Although I'm sure angelfish can and sometimes do eat ghost shrimp, I had ghost shrimp with adult angelfish in both a 20g and a 38g and they never bothered the shrimp at all. Anyway, the shrimp are so cheap its worth trying.. and if it doesn't work, then you just gave your fish a big meal. Win either way.

[Coral Keeper]

Is it true that my 2 baby angelfish can eat my grown up guppys? I have my guppys and my angelfish together and they don't even bother each other at all. What are my angelfish called and say the FULL name plz. Ill try like 2-4 ghost shrimp and see what happens. Or should i try one? Since my parents like both of the angel fish SO much that they might let me set up the 30 gallon tank when the angelfish get too big for the 10 gallon tank. Is there any way to find out if its a male or female my the color or the fins or any thing els like that?:headbang2: How big is too big of the angelfish that i have to get a bigger tank for them?

[saturday]

I'm sure your guppies will be fine...at least until your angels get bigger, and if they start disappearing, you'll know to take them out.:) However, you really need a bigger tank right now. I had one angelfish, 2 tetras and some shrimp in a 20g and it was a tight squeeze...I ended up with a 38g and only added some cories and a clown pleco and it was about right. So you should get that 30 g set up as soon as possible and depending on how many guppies you have...don't add anymore fish. that said you could get quite a few shrimp, I had about 10. Hope it all goes well.

[Coral Keeper]

I only got 5 fish in the 10 gallon tank right now, 1 zebra danio (1 inch long), 2 guppys (1 male and 1 female), 2 baby angelfish.:) My guppys had babys a while back about a month ago or so. 20-25 babys!:eek: The fish ate about 5+ of them and 1 died a few days ago.

[Coral Keeper]

I will set up the 30 gallon tank as soon as possible.

[confusion]

It really depends on the angelfish... I have a bunch of them in many different tanks, and a lot of the other occupants are smaller juvi swordtails. I have some pretty massive angels that don't give them a second look. But, I've been raising some angel fry that are now juvis, and one of the juvi angels bit a decent sized juvi swordtail in half. First time for me, but it can happen, and it's entirely dependant on the fish.

One thing I have found pretty consistent with my angels - they all find shrimp to be very tasty. So, I can't do shrimp any more.

By the way, what is a superveil angel? I am familiar with scalare and altum, altum being bigger - is superveil just another name for altum or some kind of scalare/altum hybrid? I have some juvi angels (as referenced above) in 55's and a 125, and at 6 months, they are about 3" from tip to tip.

[Lupin]

By the way, what is a superveil angel? I am familiar with scalare and altum, altum being bigger - is superveil just another name for altum or some kind of scalare/altum hybrid? I have some juvi angels (as referenced above) in 55's and a 125, and at 6 months, they are about 3" from tip to tip.
I presume another one of the scalare variants.;) Pterophyllum leopoldi is the third species aside from altums and scalares.

[Draal5]

Confusion is right it's hit or miss on angels eating your guppies but if they ate the guppy fry its a safe bet they will try and eat the adults at some point.

Your angels need to be out of that 10 gallon tank ASAP. it would be like you living in your closet. They need the room to grow.

I use a 10 to grow wigglers for 5 weeks then move them to a 29 to grow out to quarter size.

until you can move them I recommend you do 20% WC daily the angels really need fresh water and you bio-load is to high.

Altum's are the only angels that are not supper vials. Super vials are angels that have been bread for the size of their fins.

Altums are wild there are 2 varieties they are bigger bodied and smaller fined than the golds blacks etc. They have not been spawned in the hobby as far as I know.

They are rare to find in LFS but they do show up from time to time.

[Coral Keeper]

Why do i need to change my water everyday??? I don't have a to high bio-load. I only have 2 guppys and 2 angelfish and 1 daino. = 5 fish. I have a lot of plants in there too. I am trying to get my 30 g set up asap. The baby angelfish are small, they have more then enough room to swim around.

[Draal5]

What size are the angels?

[Coral Keeper]

Id say around an inch each, to the moth to the end of the tail <>< like that.

[wataugachicken]

just work on getting a larger tank set up, and the angels should be fine in the 10g as long as you don't take forever to do it. weekly water changes should suffice, but you should test the water at least twice a week to make sure that everything is stable. no ammonia, no nitrites, nitrates under 10-15ppm. i'd say with proper feeding and water changes, they should be healthy and NEEDING the 30g in a month or so. don't let it take any longer than that or their health could definitely be affected. they grow quickly when they are young.

[Coral Keeper]

Ok, I do 30%-40% water changes every week. I feed them live foods so there wont be fish food roting at the bottom of the tank, i will try to set up the 30 gallon tank asap.

[Mij]

Angels are elegent fish, but don't be fooled! They are still cichlids and can get pretty fiesty as they become of breeding age. Being a fish that has the potential to grow large, they need space. They will also need a deep tank instead of a long tank like many other fish need. Trying to put angels, even small angels, in a 10g just will not give them a very good rate of survival. Angels can not tolerate marginal water parameters. They need very clean water and warm water in the 80 degree range to survive. If you can not provide them with good conditions, even though they are free, don;t do it.

[Star_Rider]

the color morph of your angels may vary..at this age the color is hard to tell

you will not be able to sex these angels at this age..anything will be a guess at best. Angels are one of the most difficult cichlids to sex. usually positive identification is not reliable until the fish are actually spawning. at which point you can identify the sex by the size of the papilla(breeding tube)/ovipositor. the males tube will be thin and long the females tube short and blunt.
these may or may not be 'gold' angels..i have seen platinum angels with this color variation at this age these are 'blushers' meaning the gill plate has not colored up you may see red from the gills thru these gill plates but usually they fill in with color(this is what leads me to believe you may have platinums.)
the species is Scalare. they are the most common of the species and nearly all with color morphs are scalare. the other species are Leopoldis(the smallest of the angels) and Altums(the largest)
it is the altums that can hit 11-12" size most others with the exception of a few morphs(superveils) will generally hit about 6-8" top to bottom(dorsal to anal fin)
some of the Wild scalare will exceed these and an occassional 'super' angel will come around.
tank mates are hit and miss with angels..in my case the only small species which has been able to survive has been the black neons and cardinals..usually any species that can reach around 2" and are very fast swimmers .
these are fairly young angels but you should really consider a bigger tank.

BTW,angel breeders have been selectively breeding angels for quite some time..super veils are angels that resulted from selectively breeding certain characteristics..as you can tell from the name..these are selected from the best long veils..by breeding only the long veils to long veils they are able to isolated better the finnage they desire.
there are others who are selectively breeding kois to try and get solid orange angels'
they are getting pretty close to this(super veils are usually Scalare)

[Star_Rider]

Confusion is right it's hit or miss on angels eating your guppies but if they ate the guppy fry its a safe bet they will try and eat the adults at some point.

Your angels need to be out of that 10 gallon tank ASAP. it would be like you living in your closet. They need the room to grow.

I use a 10 to grow wigglers for 5 weeks then move them to a 29 to grow out to quarter size.

until you can move them I recommend you do 20% WC daily the angels really need fresh water and you bio-load is to high.

Altum's are the only angels that are not supper vials. Super vials are angels that have been bread for the size of their fins.

Altums are wild there are 2 varieties they are bigger bodied and smaller fined than the golds blacks etc. They have not been spawned in the hobby as far as I know.

They are rare to find in LFS but they do show up from time to time.
actually Altums are Altums..while there may be some differences in the altums due to geopraphics..they are none the less altums. I am not sure what you are referring to regarding gold and black.
there has been some wild scalare that have been mis identified as altums but the characteristics are fairly clear regarding face shape, body shape and colorations.(Altums usually appear with black bars with thick brown alternate bars running the height of the body) the scalare do not have wide brown bars their brown bars are narrow and may not run the height of the body.
you seem to have missed Leopoldi..which are NOT super veils.

there are three distinct species of Angel fish to date
Altum, Scalare and Leopoldi.
there is some discussion /debate on other possible angels but it is not conclusive and way beyond my expertise(limited)
of the three..the altums tend to be more difficult to acclimate usually as a result of poor survivablity during shipping . followed by wild scalre then the Leopoldi. the most common wild found in stores(LFS) tend to be the Leopoldi(tough lil buggers) on rare occassion you may find Altums.

I currently lucked out and got wild Peruvian Scalare
if you have not raised wilds..you should see the distinct differences to domestic scalare.
of the wilds.. the scalare and Leoplidi have been successfully spawned.

there are rare instances of Altums but it is rare.