Ghost Shrimp ?

[FtwayneFish]

:help:Is there anyway to tell the diff between the brackish water ghost shrimp, and the freshwater babied ghost shrimp? i have read that there are two diff types of them. ones that need brackish water for the babies and ones that only need fresh water and the babies arent planktonic, and hang on there mums?thanks have a great day.:grinno: Im looking to breed cherry shrimp in my 5 gal and make whats in my 5 gal now into a upgrade 10 gal that used to have a hermit crab in.

And if there are any "measley ghost shrimp" experts. in my 5 gal they run circles and are very active and most important dont die. and in my 55 gal they are sluggish and slowly die off at about 1 or 2 a day and after a week 12-15 outta the dozen i bought are dead. and i lose only 1-2 in the 5 gal after a week and then they are fine. i know i might answer my question by saying that i dont test a lick of water parameters. i do dechlor when i do my water changes. besides that i have a strict schedule of feeding, carbon replacement, water changes, live plants etc i am fairly lucky and never have fish die or algae blooms or disease. but i am working with hardy fish too i suppose. but i dont get it. good water?, food, java fern, japanese moss balls in each tank as well as floating hornwort in both. kents freshwater plant liq style trace element, but no copper. and i read that there so minute and the plants would soak em up to quick anyhow? the 55 gal has been up and running about 2 months before the 5 gal too. 55 gal is 4 months old and the 5 gal is two. sorry its long ugh.

So if anyone see's something wrong or can lend some tips id appreciate it.

[flyte]

I don't know if theres a way to tell if the ghost shrimp are supposed to be in brackish or not. I had 4 in a small freshwater tank, 2 males and 2 females. They always appeared to have eggs but nothing ever happened. When I slowly changed the tank to brackish, the eggs hatched and I even saw the tiny babies on the sides of the tank and on some of the wood. I don't think many survived but I see them every now and then mixed in with my java moss.
They seem to be much more active in the brackish water.
Don't know anything about the other shrimp, sorry!
Good Luck!

[vampie]

There are many species of Palaemonetes, but I believe the ones found in most LFS are a native species which live and breed in freshwater, and can live in low-end brackish. I really don't know how to tell each species apart though.

[FtwayneFish]

Does anyone know how long it should take to mate.
What the deal is with the female molting and then mating and dropping eggs. T/F
Is it really about 30 days to babies.
Whats the avrg baby count?
Any tips on getting them to molt then mate or mate?

Tank ok?- 5G with floating hornwort, good water, small clump of java moss, couple fake plants, cave.

[FtwayneFish]

Anyone?

[jrh]

I don't know about ghosts, but in cherry shrimp, the female holds the eggs in her back legs until they hatch. I've read that molting will cause her to drop the eggs, and that she'll also drop infertile eggs, or if the water conditions aren't right for their development.

[FtwayneFish]

Anyone got any help?

Does anyone know how long it should take to mate.
What the deal is with the female molting and then mating and dropping eggs. T/F
Is it really about 30 days to babies.
Whats the avrg baby count?
Any tips on getting them to molt then mate or mate?

Tank ok?- 5G with floating hornwort, good water, small clump of java moss, couple fake plants, cave.

[FtwayneFish]

bump?

[Grins]

Maybe it will help if you share what information you have found elsewhere.

[FtwayneFish]

Maybe it will help if you share what information you have found elsewhere.

i dont understand? might be too simple for me to read? lol

i think you want the info ive read to come up with these ?'s

i cant remember the sites is y i ask. i thought owners of theses pets would know the for real answers and not vary. and they would know off the top of there head like?

[Pufferpunk]

Ghost Shrimp: See-Through Shrimp for your Tank
Author: Robert T. Ricketts
Commonly sold as feeders for predatory fish (many smallish puffers love them by the way), these US Gulf Coast natives are worth a closer look for peaceful tanks with small fish or those with non-predatory habits. They have been suggested on Internet message boards as algae eaters. In my experience this is a bit of an exaggeration. They are omnivorous, and will eat some soft algaes (but no filamentous/thread/hair algae) if there is no flake or small pellets available, but prefer to compete with their finny tankmates for normal aquarium fare. Between meals they will scavenge the tank, making a group of these inverts one of the more efficient selections for tank cleaners, at least where uneaten food is concerned. They are not at all limited to the bottom of the tank. They will forage all over the rocks, driftwood, plants, and even the glasses of the tank sides.
In the US, these creatures are caught along the Gulf Coast in marshes, rivers, and less-than-marine bays. Originally seasonal (they are really common and easy to harvest seasonally), they are now captured at peak and kept in holding ponds and vats for off-season stock. For me they do best in at least slightly hard to hard and somewhat alkaline water. They do withstand long-term exposure to softer water; so don’t fret about whatever your tank conditions may be, possibly unless you are breeding them. In tanks with non-threatening tankmates, these shrimp seem to be active almost 24/7. In a multi-shrimp tank I seem to see activity whenever I look. With threatening tankmates, they will be largely nocturnal in my experience. I have poor results with these shrimp with my larger Synodontis cats which are nocturnal. They jump or climb out of the tanks — whether being chased, or just being spooked by being brushed by catfish whiskers in the night I do not know. I can imagine this happening with other nocturnal fish, even if they are not shrimp-eaters.
There seem to be at least two and most probably several species of Ghost Shrimp carried by local fish stores in the US as feeders. The two main divisions I find hard to tell apart. One is true freshwater (FW), but will withstand brackish water without problems. The other is brackish to marine, but will withstand FW for extended to indefinite periods.
The real FW Ghost Shrimp breeds readily in tanks, the female attaching fertilized eggs to her swimmerets after a fresh molt. The eggs may have been stored in her body following mating until time for molt, but these events tend to follow one another closely. The female carries these with her until they hatch, fanning her swimmerets periodically to clean and oxygenate the eggs, which individually are fairly large. Development of the eggs/larvae can be seen as darkening of the eggs as the enclosed embryos mature.
When the female releases the larvae, they are individually tiny, but visible. They are almost miniatures of the adults. They can take fine fry food such as Liquifry or the finest powders or even newly hatched baby brine shrimp. However, for they do better with live foods available in their tank and live baby brine supplements after a few days. The adults (along with any fish in the tank) will consider the babies as sushi, so survival is likely only in the most heavily planted tanks, or in isolation tanks. If you set a tank for hatching with a near-term female carrying eggs as the only inhabitant, watch her and remove her as soon as possible after the fry are released. She will have no objection to cannibalizing her own offspring. Heavy planting here as well gives more refuge, and a richer source of infusoria for the fry to graze. The length of time for the eggs to develop to hatching is variable with temperature. Three weeks from the last molt seems about normal at temperatures in the mid to upper 70s F. For me these shrimp seem to need at least moderately hard (7-9 GH and KH, calcium and magnesium hardness and alkalinity) and pH 7.5-7.8. These are the parameters of my current water supply. Years ago attempts to breed these in softer water were not very successful, but this could well have been contributed to by other uncontrolled or un-noticed factors. All filters should be sponge-protected if you don’t want to risk the fry. The sponges make excellent grazing sites for the shrimp as well, with captured food particles and infusoria feeding on these. These fry are the invert equivalent of small Tetra or Rainbow fry.
Masses of Java Moss are a wonderful nursery — these harbor loads of infusorians and provide plenty of refuges at the same time.
The other common Ghost Shrimp, the brackish/marine type, also breeds in captivity, but the “fry” are quite different from the adults, true larvae, tiny even in relation to their FW kin, and live free-floating in brackish to marine water, drifting with the plankton eating the tiniest plankton. They go through multiple molts and life cycle stages during this period, so are extremely difficult to raise in captivity. They live this free-floating existence for many days to weeks before they come to resemble the parents and settle out of the water column to an adult life style. If you have seen both types of females carrying eggs on their swimmerets, the difference is obvious. The brackish/marine forms have tiny, tiny eggs and many, many of them. The eggs of the FW form(s?) are much larger and even to aging eyes can be seen as individual eggs (well, on occasion with the help of a magnifying lens).
Both these shrimp are all but transparent. Their shells are clear, their muscles very nearly so. The hindgut contents are clearly visible. If they have been grazing algae, then get a colored-flake food meal, before too long a dividing line in the color of the hindgut is noticeable. Once they die, or if they are ill or severely stressed to near-death, they become translucent white. Sometimes they even turn pinkish (usually after death), as do boiled edible shrimp and lobsters after death. When they grow, as with other crustaceans, they shed their external skeleton and harden a new larger one. In very soft water they sometimes have trouble shedding the old exoskeleton, occasionally becoming trapped in the partially shed shell. They or their con-specifics frequently but not always consume the cast-off shell (recycling). They are agile swimmers, and in common with many relatives, can snap backward at great speed from a startle reflex snap forward of their tail.
Adding saltwater liquid iodide supplement is controversial, but as I have experienced molt death issues with some shrimp without this supplement, I tend to use it for any tank where I am attmpting breeding shrimp.
Due to their seasonal low prices and ready availability, these are fascinating creatures for early forays into invert keeping. They can inhabit any size tank, but for watching a dozen or so of them on their own, a 15-gallon tank is near ideal, a ten will do for a smaller group. The fine particles at the bottom of your used-up flake food containers are ideal staple food. If your area is iodine-deficient, adding a few drops of marine/reef iodine supplement every month would not be bad, especially if you have experienced molt problems with your shrimp as mentioned before. An alternative would be a teaspoon or so if marine mix per month in the tank to serve the same need. If you want to try your hand at planted tanks, these are perfect inhabitants for the novice invert or plant keeper. It you have will power, hold off on tankmates other than possibly MTS snails or Otocinclus cats. The Ghost Shrimp are not nearly as good at algae clearing as are Amano shrimp, but they cost a tiny fraction of the price of an Amano, and are just as hardy or more so. They are not long-lived (Amanos are long-lived for me), about a year to a year and a half is my expectation. They can reach two inches, but are usually smaller. Keep a species tank of them for a while, then set up a second, smaller tank, and try your hand at breeding and rearing inverts. Not worthwhile trade goods at the local fish store (LFS) due to their low unit cost, but lots of fun and personal satisfaction from something quite different from a guppy tank.
This article originally appeared in AquaSource magazine.

[Sarra]

My local Pet Country sells them as feeders, however, they appear to sell Salty ghosts, since they all die in my freshwater tank within a few hours of arriving, but they have done fine in my brackish tank.

[FtwayneFish]

ahhhh THANKYOU pufferpunk. i think thats the article i read lol. so i can tell by the egg size and count.

i have a couple dozen in a 5g and ill see if they breed i guess.

[FtwayneFish]

o just PufferPunk RULES. thankyou again.

[Pufferpunk]

:D

[FtwayneFish]

and filbert rules lol he looks amazing. ive never seen red puffers b4? what type is that and i bet they cost a pretty penny.

[Pufferpunk]

I waited 4 years to find a Congo puffer (Tetraodon miurus) that red & affordable. LFS arond here wanted $200 for a red one. I found her (Punkster) on Aquabid for ~$50. Yes, Filbert is the coolest!

[FtwayneFish]

UPDATE. i have a berried ghost shrimp.

i had her in the 5g- then moved em all to the 10g ( seen a ghost eat a cherry on here) lol ghost shrimp- .19, the cherry shrimp- 1.98, moving the GS to the 10g- priceless.

but anyhow. then i was cleaning the 10 out and put the mass of floating hornwort in the sink- bam there she was. then i put her in the mansion- my 55g. then a day after that i put her last nite into her own bungalow. one my plastic half gallon tanks. with gravel and plants and all. well see how it goes. the egg count isnt gonna work i think. theyre kinda large i suppose? i havnt seen that many.

[FtwayneFish]

day # 3 on ghost shrimp 1 and now im at day 2 with ghost shrimp 2. but im leaving the 2nd one in my 10g.

must have been the swich from the 5g to the 10g that made em mate. or coinedence

i cant wait to add another animal bred under my belt. not that gs are rocket science its just neat to multiply another animal, ya know.

[flyte]

Just got home from the Florida keys.. :( Going from 80 degrees to a foot of snow sucks. It sucks even more when you drive and have to watch the temperature go down ..and down.. and down.

Anyway, I collected some dead coral rock for my fiddler crab tank while I was at the beach. I was frolicking in the water and put the rocks in a cloth bag for safekeeping. On the way home I peeked inside the bag and found what appeared to be a ghost shrimp popping around! It looked exactly like the ones at home in my tank.
I then noticed all the hermit crabs I thought I'd gotten off of the rocks crawling around as well and I spent about an hour gently picking them off and putting them in a bucket. Had to go back to the beach that day to let them go!

When I got home I noticed about three different sizes of baby shrimp in my 5 gallon brackish tank. I had assumed those babies died since I only saw them once or twice. Guess they were hiding in the Java moss!

They only started producing young when I put them in brackish water. They carried eggs in the freshwater but always seemed to drop them before they developed very far.
It seems to take about a month for the babies to cook inside mama shrimp.
I've seen them mating within a few hours of giving birth, dirty little buggers.

Kind of funny, I found a itsy bitsy little pink clam on my coral. It was closed so I just rinsed it off and dropped it in the tank. Those shrimp fought over that clam for an hour and the winner actually got it open and ate the contents! She then carted the empty, open shell around with her for awhile like she was in some sort of one shrimp victory parade.
Shrimp are weird!

[FtwayneFish]

day 5 on preg shrimp.

the one all on her own is looking great.

the 2 in the 10g. one has lost alot of her eggs? and the otherone seems great.

[flyte]

If I move them or make some sort of large change to the shrimp tank while they are carrying new eggs they almost always drop them. Leaving them alone would be the best way to assure you get your official Ghost Shrimp belt buckle. (Mines all shiny!)

Good Luck!

[FtwayneFish]

yea thats what i wanted to do was not move any of the 3. but i wanted one really secure. the other two are a small snack whenever my crayfish decides.

[FtwayneFish]

they still look great. no devolpments on the eggs that i can see yet. nice green though.

[flyte]

I didn't really notice any development until right before the babies were born. Just a dark mossy green color.
A few days before they were born it seemed like she was having trouble keeping them in. I could see little tiny black eyes on a few.
It's really hard to name tiny invisible baby shrimp on the fly, so start making a list of appropriate names now!

[FtwayneFish]

i will, i checked her this morn and no new news. almost 2 weeks now.

[FtwayneFish]

turned a different tint green!!!

[FtwayneFish]

still no development after the tint change. i cant wait to see if there freshwater larvae or miny adults or brackish larve.

[FtwayneFish]

i see eyes and she has trouble keeping them in. looks like shes lost?/birthed? a few? i didnt see them in the tank?

[Sarra]

I've got a pregger ghost shrimp myself!

What salinity level are you running? I should probably start lowering my tank's level, I think they're at the very high end of what's acceptable for ghost shrimp. :(

[FtwayneFish]

mine totally in FW. I checked her last nite and i could see the eyes easier, and there was a few missing. this morning i checked her and she only has one egg left. but i checked all over the tank and no babies?

[FtwayneFish]

still didnt see any babies, the few eggs left are getting really light colored. deff see the eyes really easy.

[FtwayneFish]

no babies thus far. how small are they? does anyone have a pic please?

[flyte]

Whenever I try to photograph them they don't show up.. being so small and invisible.. When I saw one of the newborns I thought it was a small piece of human hair that had gotten stuck inside the tank. When I see one, it's usually hanging onto the side of the filter or thermometer.. I usually don't see 'em because they hide in the java moss. I have several young ones who just recently started coming out and mingling with the adults..they are about 1/3 the size and about 3 or 4 months old, I think.

What your describing is what happened to mine as well.. when I switched them to brackish they actually had babies.. I just had another set let loose yesterday and they were at it trying to make more yesterday evening!

[FtwayneFish]

so in your first paragraph your sayin if their FW there just hiding and they will be for awhile?

I appreciate your help.

[FtwayneFish]

hey flyte? my expert noooooooo your gone lol

[flyte]

Lol. I'm no expert but thanks :)

What I meant was, when I had them in freshwater there were no babies born, they just kept dropping the eggs.
After I had finished slowly changing them to brackish water, they started having tons of babies.
I thought the babies died but it turns out they were just hiding and came out a few months later.

[FtwayneFish]

ahh, I must look really dumb laying on the floor watching for 30 mins on end lol. You can see my nursery on my link below. Im sorry the pics arnt apparent, you have to click em'. shes ontop the java moss in the lil tank. the java moss is on the left in the shot and you can make out her lil eyes. But in the pic you can see its pretty planted. I read to in diff spaces that they might eat there young? so I really planted.

[flyte]

Nah, I love sitting here watching them. My parrot and I spend lots of time just leaning over together watching the shrimp swim around. I guess we're easily entertained!

Opening your pics now, I hate dialup!!

[FtwayneFish]

then im even more sorry there huge and you have to click em'

[flyte]

rofl it took me a HALF HOUR to load one picture. Very nice tanks!!

[FtwayneFish]

im not rofl it sux. nobodys gonna wanna do all that work to look at some pics.

[flyte]

I'm sorry, wasn't teasing you.. It's my dialup that sucks, not your pictures:) If you like I can try to reformat them and make the images smaller for you.

Sorry, not gonna be able to do it, I keep crashing my connection. I hate living in the woods.
Maybe try downloading a program to help you resize the images? I use photoshop for everything... you can download a free trial from adobe.com.

[FtwayneFish]

no, no its cool. I hope you liked em'.

I took the mom out the nursery and I still dont see any babies. I wish someone had a pic.

[FtwayneFish]

no babies. I guess they died or didnt hatch. Ima start the tank over

[flyte]

Are you sure? They really are hard to see..
I only saw maybe one or two babies when they first hatched and that was only once. They have had maybe 3 or 4 sets of babies and I didn't see them until they grew larger and came out of hiding.

[Brackmyforte]

hi I'm new to this forum, but I belong to several others [okcaa.org, okcfishlady.com, reefcentral]. I have a friend who breeds a couple different types of shrimp. I was actually interested in breeding the ghost shrimp my self and I asked her about it. She says for Ghost shrimp, the gestation period seems to be around 30 days. She also got some helpful info from this site when she did a Google search [her fisrt batch of Ghost shrimp wasn't actually planned].
http://www.fishpondinfo.com/shrimp2.htm#ghost

[Brackmyforte]

Hehe, guess I didn't notice the other pages on this thread! Hope you got the info you were looking for:)