View Full Version : What do you think? Midas vs. Red Devil???
penguin
08-04-2003, 1:15 AM
I will be setting up a 55 and I want either a Midas or red devil. Whichever i choose will be housed alone. I am leaning towards the midas. I want intelligence,looks and owner response (attacking me through the class goes under this:p) I have heard they are about the same in aggresion levels but midas' are more intelligent? Thanks for your opinions. :) :) :)
scholar
08-04-2003, 6:29 AM
Well, I do not know if there are any difference in behavior. However, the striped midas is definately uch prettier. :)
IMO, I will go for Midas.
predatorcichlid
08-04-2003, 5:31 PM
If you plan on keeping a pure blood Citrinellum or a cross breed from a LFS then a 55 will be insufficent in both water volume and physical space. A citrinellum male can easily hit 12 inches and some can get as large as 15 inches, mix breeds can also reach these sizes. A standered 55 is only 12 inches wide and when all said and done only holds about 40 gal. of actual water. If you could find a pure blood labiatum (rare) they top out at about 10 to 12 inches in capitivity. Even this would be pushing it. 55 gal. tanks are desinged for small community fish and are not suited for large cichlids. The max size fish that sould be kept in a 12 inch wide tank is 8 inches.
penguin
08-05-2003, 1:45 AM
Thanks for the coments guys. Would a female Midas outgrow it? If so would a male outgrow a 75? I will be getting a midas over the red devil due to intelligence but if a midas isnt possible i have pure red devils available at my lfs. How long would it take to outgrow a 55? Thanks
scholar
08-05-2003, 9:43 AM
I would like to take the tank size discussions further. Please get the biggest ank you can afford the price and have the space to set it up. You will not be sorry. :)
Rare Cichlids
08-05-2003, 10:30 AM
Originally posted by penguin
Thanks for the coments guys. Would a female Midas outgrow it? If so would a male outgrow a 75? I will be getting a midas over the red devil due to intelligence but if a midas isnt possible i have pure red devils available at my lfs. How long would it take to outgrow a 55? Thanks
Maybe. Adult sizes vary a lot for males and females of both species. A female Midas could potentionally grow just as large as some males. A 75g should be a good tank size for a male of either species. There is no difference in the intelligence of either species. They are extremely similiar in many aspects. You may have read more stories about Midas cichlids being kept as real pets, but thats not because Midas are more intellegent. More apt to slam the glass maybe, but not more intellegent.
MASSMAN2
08-05-2003, 10:48 AM
They are both the same fish if you ask me. Same fish , different names!
peifc
08-05-2003, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by MASSMAN2
They are both the same fish if you ask me. Same fish , different names!
Someone will tell you differently, especially the experts. They are from the same lake, but different fish.
predatorcichlid
08-05-2003, 8:43 PM
They are different fish, If they were identical they would have the same name. They are very similer because they are from the some genus. But there are differences. As far as intelligence goes I don't think one has a advantage over the other. I can tell you speeking in general that the midas males do tend to get bigger and more aggressive them devils. But in captivity the rules can change. I aquired 4 wild caught labiatum. I was trying to breed them but all 3 turn out to be males. One out of the batch grew like crazy. The other 3 all had the typical labiatum (devil) look, but the larger one look to be a midas (citrinellus). I did alot of research on this and got the same answer from 3 of the people I had contacted. In a nut shell this is what they said.
"The specific exterinal traits of these two species are subject to great variabilty in capitivy. They therefor often overlap so that detenmination is impossible by a visual inspection in the aquarium. It was also observed that the larger lobed lips of the labiatus decrease after time of keeping in captivity. It is obvious that certain external stimuli that induce growth in the wild is absent in the aquarium. only freshly caught wild specimens will display this trait. The protruding hump is not a genetically fixed trait to the citrinellus species. Capitive labiatus can also exhibit this feature as can many other cichlid species."
Bascially in a aquarium it can be impossible to tell the difference between a pure devil and pure midas. with out disection and inspection.
penguin
08-05-2003, 9:48 PM
Thanks for all the info guys. I will take evryones advice and try for a 75. Im only 13 and have a 55 african mixed tank in my room where i am tryin to get the 75. I would get the 75 if i have the money but 10 bucks every 2 weeks and fry money is not much at a very slow rate. It gonna be hard but im going for it.
Predatorfish-thanks for all your help with the midas. I was lookin at your website and it is great. all your fish look awsome as well. My favorite part though was your no fighting "policy." I think it is a great idea and great for the fish as well. Did you have to get that tank custom made?
AikidoGuy
08-06-2003, 5:22 PM
100% Purebred labiatus..... easily 12"
http://www.kpdevlin.com/Gibbi_Flanagan__Pink_Fene.jpg
However.. both the midas and the devil will easily outgrow a 55gal. minimum size I'd recommend is a 65gal thats got the 18" in depth you'd be looking for
;)
:eek: That's your fish, Aikido? Beautiful!!!!
AikidoGuy
08-06-2003, 10:21 PM
That belongs to a friend of mine he is also a member here but doesnt post much very often. That is a wild caught male amphilophus labiatus. It has been here in the states for about 4 years if i remember correctly. when you see that fish and see a pure citrinellum it is clear they are not the same fish. They have a very different shape and attitude, as you can it it housed with other cichlids.
Is it really 12".. well that was a pretty much full grown sajica:
http://www.kpdevlin.com/MVC-848X.JPG
chewey
08-10-2003, 11:32 PM
I have had the pleasure to know a gentelman by the title of professor George Barlow of UC Berkley who is the utmost authority in Midas/Red Devil knowledge as he did a 35 yr. study on these fish. He was given a government grant for this study and i had the honor of visiting his breeding ponds and lab/aquarium facilities.
All of his fish were wild caught in lakes by himself and his students. I was also priviy to having one of these wild caught fish that went into the 16 inch range and weighed in around 3# these are awesome fish and a 100 gal. tank is in my opinion a minimum. I have in my possesion a package of his autographed studies and would be happy to send some copys to you to help clear up any confusion as to which is which.
If you send me your address i can send these to you if you wish.:) :) :)
MASSMAN2
08-11-2003, 1:47 PM
THey are both the same fish if you ask me. The name Red Devil have been around for quite a long time. Through selective breeding for different colors, the Midas name was attached to a few that were a golden color.
As I stated earlier, same fish, different name!
Originally posted by MASSMAN2
THey are both the same fish if you ask me. The name Red Devil have been around for quite a long time. Through selective breeding for different colors, the Midas name was attached to a few that were a golden color.
As I stated earlier, same fish, different name!
RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rolleyes:
AikidoGuy
08-11-2003, 2:16 PM
Like I said above, full grown adults of both fish look nothing like each other.
Anubisscott
08-11-2003, 2:32 PM
A 75 would be fine, just remember this will be the only fish in the tank. Bigger is better however, and with a bigger tank it would be more possible to house other fish. http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid73/p83d69d103f72539c152a670cbb5ca5db/fb7836e5.jpgMy Midas Pair.
Originally posted by MASSMAN2
THey are both the same fish if you ask me. The name Red Devil have been around for quite a long time. Through selective breeding for different colors, the Midas name was attached to a few that were a golden color.
As I stated earlier, same fish, different name!
Not a chance. Because the name has been around a while and another fish sort of looks like it, doesn't mean there is a conspiracy and they are the same.
They are totally different.
If you have both, look at the lips and body mass and you'll see that they are very different and not even close to looking alike.
Whenever I see this kind of post arguing about same or different, I ignore. No point explaining when one doesn't wanna listen. :D
Rare Cichlids
08-12-2003, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by MASSMAN2
THey are both the same fish if you ask me. The name Red Devil have been around for quite a long time. Through selective breeding for different colors, the Midas name was attached to a few that were a golden color.
As I stated earlier, same fish, different name!
Actually, NO. These fish are distinctly different species and wild fish can easily be distinguished by even an untrained eye. Successive captive generations have mottled the gene pool to the point that captive bred Citrinellus and Labiatus are often the same fish. But wild caught individuals are most definantly separate species. I hope you stop giving false information.
dave76
08-12-2003, 12:41 PM
trolls trolls, who let in the trolls........
Originally posted by Rare Cichlids
Actually, NO. These fish are distinctly different species and wild fish can easily be distinguished by even an untrained eye.
I hope you stop giving false information.
I wish you luck on that...hoping he will not give false information. I think there were about 5 people trying to tell him that these 2 fishes are different species. AND he still said the same thing, "Same fish different name." :rolleyes:
Maybe he should talk to Ad Konings (ichthyologist) or other experts about this. :D