CO2 Injection

[djlen]

Owing to the fact that one our members recently lost a number of fish, due to improper use of CO2, I felt a need to post on this subject, regarding the dangers as well as the attributes of using gas in the planted tank.
Shortly after reading his post I was visiting another site (myfishtank.net) and read what I consider to be a very well written and thought out article on this subject by Kevin Batchelor, AKA: '1979camaro'.

Kevin's article:

While there are many different opinions about lighting, fertilization, and substrate, carbon dioxide is considered to be a necessity by most, if not all, aquascapers who are interested in creating dynamic, heavily planted environments. Certainly, success can be had without the addition of CO2, however the results will not be the dazzling aquariums which inspire so many aquarists to undertake a planted setup.

Carbon dioxide is the most critical plant nutrient (light not being a nutrient). Any stocked aquarium will provide plants with some CO2 (due to the respiration of aerobic organism, aka fish and other critters), and while this minute amount is often sufficient to maintain a few healthy plants, it can in no way fulfill the needs of a densely planted aquarium. When CO2 is not present in sufficient quantity plants grow very slowly and will tend to stay smaller. Furthermore, biogenic decalcification can occur; this is, essentially, a last ditch effort by the plants to obtain CO2 by breaking down the salts in the aquarium water. As this process occurs, the pH level can raise a couple points in a fairly short period of time. This alone is stressful enough for the fish, but the problem worsens when the lights are turned off. When photosynthesis stops at night, the plants will stop breaking down these salts and the pH will drop rapidly. This fluctuation is very harmful for the fish, but there is a simple remedy: provide the plants with a source of dissolved CO2.

So, now that the ill effects of carbon dioxide deficiency have been presented, the question becomes: how does one provide dissolved CO2? When the volume of water is large it is very difficult to supply and regulate the amount of CO2 necessary without a pressurized system and a regulator. A good analogy is a scuba divers tank. The bottle valve is always on and the regulator adjusts how much CO2 is injected into the water. This type of setup can be fairly costly, however it is certainly the most reliable means of controlling (and adjusting with ease) the amount of CO2 in the water. For small tanks, particularly those of 55 gallons and smaller, Do-It-Yourself (DIY) CO2 injection is often the cheapest solution. DIY CO2 is quite cheap. Aftermarket products are available to the person wary of actually doing the DIY themselves, however there is virtually no difference between these products and a simple DIY CO2 reactor and diffuser. The drawback to a DIY setup is the relative difficulty of adjusting the amount of CO2 injected into the aquarium. However, most people with small aquariums find that a DIY system works well, and the lack of regulation does not generally cause a problem with over-dosing. A simple DIY reactor can be built for around $10, considerably less than a pressurized system.

Building a DIY CO2 reactor is a great first project. It is relatively straightforward; all one needs is a 2L bottle, aquarium silicone, airline tubing (many people use silicone tubing because it degrades less quickly), a check valve, and something to diffuse the bubbles (cotton balls and air stones both work, as will most anything with a fine mesh; some people use a bell type diffuser). First, measure the diameter of the airline tubing (it is usually 1/4", but there are other sizes). Next, using a power drill or Dremel tool drill a hole into the plastic cap of the 2L bottle. Frequently, the soft plastic seal on the inside of the cap must be removed at this point. The hole should be just slightly smaller than the diameter of the tube to help establish a tight seal. Insert the tubing from the top of the cap into the hole until it extends at least one inch through the underside. At this point, seal around the tubing on both sides with silicone aquarium sealant. It is important to do a good job filling all the crevices and gaps or else the CO2 will leak. Read the directions on the tube to see how long it needs to fully set; a day is a good estimate, however waiting an extra night will not hurt. If the sealant is not fully cured it simply will not hold, and that can be very frustrating. At some point in the tubing many people place a check valve. This is a good precautionary measure to prevent water from siphoning back into the bottle, especially if the reactor will be below the water level; a check valve is, however, by no means a necessary component of the DIY CO2 reactor. Two or more bottles can be connected together through the use of a T connector; brass is best because it will not dissolve as quickly as hard plastic; in theory, as many bottles as are necessary can be connected together. The placement of the tube outlet is really a matter of personal choice. Many people like to put it in the filter intake because this allows the CO2 more time to mix into the water; really, anywhere in the tank will work, though lower is generally better because the bubbles will have more time to dissolve.

So, now there is a beautiful DIY CO2 reactor sitting under the tank, but it is empty. There is one general formula for creating the CO2, but there are many different opinions on the proper measurements for the ingredients. One which has been successful for many people is a combination of 3 cups of white granulated sugar, 1 teaspoon of baking soda, and 1 teaspoon of yeast. The yeast consumes the sugar which uses the oxygen in the bottle and releases CO2 as a by product of this process. Combine these three ingredients in the bottle and fill it with lukewarm water to the area where the bottle begins to slope inward. Though it is not necessary, it is not a bad idea to shake the bottle up and try to dissolve as much of the sugar as possible. All that is left is to screw the bottle into the cap and watch the bubbles begin. Usually this process takes 10-30 minutes with full strength being reached within a few hours, however do not fear if it takes a little longer. Certainly, however, if no bubbles appear within 24 hours there is a problem and any seals should be checked. Most often the escaping CO2 can be heard hissing around the area where it is leaking.

A noticeable improvement in the growth rate of the plants should be visible within a few days, however certain things can prevent the CO2 from having its full effect. The most frequent problem is surface agitation; surface movement facilitates the release of dissolved CO2 into the air. This is particularly problematic with hang on the back filters when the water level is not raised to the edge of the filter outlet. Ideally, a canister filter should be used, however many times this is not an option, nor is it truly necessary; a daily check of the water level and topping off when required should be sufficient to prevent major problems.

Maintaining the appropriate amount of dissolved CO2 is an important part of a planted aquarium. Most planted aquariums require around 1 gram of dissolved CO2 for every 25 gallons of water. By comparing the pH value of the water and the carbonate hardness (KH) as determined through test kits it is easy to derive the milligrams per quart of CO2 through the use of a simple flow chart which is available from many sources, one of which is here: http://www.aquabotanic.com/charts.htm

Carbon dioxide is still just one part of the equation; the amount of CO2 necessary varies with the number of plants, fish, and amount of lighting. Experimentation is an important part of achieving the type of planted tank which can win praise and admiration, as well as provide satisfaction to those who view it. While it may seem complicated, it really is quite accessible with a fair amount of research, forethought, and patience.

________________________________________


I will add one comment to the above:
Before contemplating the use of CO2 in your aquarium please know your water's kH. If it is not, at minimum - 3.0dH, it should be raised before injecting gas.

Len

[Starry]

Great find, Len. I vote this in as a sticky!

I'd like to add a few things:

What worked great as a seal for me is bathtub caulking. Drilled a hole in the bottle cap, pushed the airline through, and sealed all around the hole both inside and out. I've been using the same cap and line for about two years, without any leaks, ever.

I really like the Hagen ladder-type diffuser. Barely takes up and space and works like a charm. I also have an airstone at the end of the line, so the bubbles come out fine, then take their time going up the ladder.

One tsp yeast is a lot. Especially for small tanks, start with 1/4 tsp, and add more if needed. Better safe than sorry.

I also highly recommend the Jell-O recipe. It lasts longer and is more stable, slightly easing the initial burst that is unavoidable with the plain water/sugar method. Here is the recipe:
1) Mix together 2 packs of Jell-O (any flavour - all that's gonna go into your tank is the CO2 either way) and 2 cups boiling water. Mix really well until it's all dissolved.
2) Add 1.5-2 cups sugar and mix well again. Pour the mixture into a 2L pop bottle (juice bottles aren't as good, the caps aren't as air-tight)
3) Add 2 cups cold water and mix AGAIN. Make sure the sugar is dissolved and not just collected at the bottom.
4) Now stick it in the fridge overnight, until it actually turns into Jell-O.
5) In the morning, add 1/2 cup room temp/lukewarm water and 1/4 to 1/2 tsp yeast. I would suggest starting with 1/4 tsp. If you find that it's not enough, you can always open the bottle later and put in some more.
6) Monitor your pH throughout the day. The bottle should start producing CO2 within a few hours, and your pH should drop throughout the day. If it drops too low, increase surface agitation or add an airstone, and use less yeast next time. If the pH doesn't reach your target, open the bottle and add a bit more yeast.

Finally, here's my favourite CO2 chart:
http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/kh-ph-co2-chart.html

Happy plant growing!

[Must4ng s4lly]

WOW! Thanks for the information! Great article I have a 58 g planted tank that is pretty heavily loaded with fish (thus have sustained the plants fairly well) and a 75 G The plants are not growing quite as I would like tho..... I have always hesitated to use CO2 as both my large aquariums are pretty heavily populated and I don't want to kill of my fishies. They are doing great but the plants are just OK. I would like the plants to grow better.

I have good lighting and I feed my plants, so I guess they need just a bit of CO2. My PH is 8.6 Yes, very high and it needs to be lowered. I will get a Kh kit to see what that is. Prob pretty high too. We have a lot of carbonate in our water.

My question is, would a professional system be recommended for my tank size and fish load as opposed to the DIY?? what should I do after I get set up so I don't Kill the fishies other than monitoring the PH through the day??

Thanks!

[djlen]

First get a kH test kit. You're probably right about it being OK, but always be sure before injecting.
If you have the resources, I would highly recommend a pressurized system for that size tank. It's much easier to maintain a constant pH with pressurized. And once set up to the desired pH needs only periodic monitoring. I haven't had to adjust mine for months.
Here's an excellent site which includes an article on, among other things, CO2 systems:
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/articles.htm

Len

[djlen]

Here's an excellent article on water chemistry:
http://www.drhelm.com/aquarium/chemistry.html

Len

[happychem]

http://www.aquatic-gardeners.org/Nyberg_yeast.ppt

I found the points about nourishing the yeast interesting, I've often contemplated it, my fiance works with a bunch of yeast biochmists, but none of them could provide me with more details about what's actually in their yeast media.

I'm trying out her recipe now. I'll post later if I think there's any significant advantage over the simple sugar & yeast mix. Worst case scenario, I've got a bunch of protein mix now, I'm gonna be HUGE!:D j.k.

I will add one more thing, I switched from bread to champagne yeast for this new batch. It seemed to start working right away, whereas the bread yeast took a full day to get rolling.

[Must4ng s4lly]

Thanks for all the feedback! I got a KH test yesterday and am still looking at CO2 units. I want to be absolutly sure I get the right one that won't fluctuate my PH & KH too much. I don't want to have any little fishie funerals!

[anonapersona]

Originally posted by Must4ng s4lly
Thanks for all the feedback! I got a KH test yesterday and am still looking at CO2 units. I want to be absolutly sure I get the right one that won't fluctuate my PH & KH too much. I don't want to have any little fishie funerals!

It's not so much the equipment, but the rate you are using.

I suggest one of the All-in-One regulator/solenoid/needle valve/bubble counters, either Milwaukee or JBL, I have both. Then from the same online store, get 10' of CO2 resistant tubing. Your choice onthe diffuser/reactor -- select in-tank or out -- that depends on the room you have and your tolerance for equipment in the tank vs inline with a canister, passive diffusers are cheaper like Eheim or Hagen ladder. Order that from wherever you get the other stuff from. Locally find a 10 lb tank, more or less, depending on the room beneath the tank. Spend about $90+$10+($20 to $50 for reactor)+shipping +($75 to $90 for tank)= $210 to $225 Add a check valve maybe, and a strap to tie the tank upright. Plug and play.

That's all you really need, the pH controller is a cool gadget for folks who can keep them calibrated -- not necessary unless you are in soft water or have time and the inclination to keep them working correctly.

[daveedka]

The question that still perplexes me, and I can't find an answer in anything I read. Does one need to shut off Co2 at night? or can it be run 24/7 this will be the deciding factor in my decision of whether or not to use Co2 ever. I travel 4-5 days every week , and don't have someone to shut off my co2 every night.

[happychem]

I think that everything that I've read has said to leave it on 24/7. On the other hand, I only have experience with DIY systems, which are hard pressed to introduce too much CO2.

[daveedka]

Thanks happy chem, Being a circulation and oxygenation fanatic these concepts are hard to accept. I recently put sponges over the outputs of my HOB's to stop all surface movement. I don't know if I will get used to it or not right now it is driving me batty every time I look at my tanks. I have noticed a difference in co2 levels already without actually adding any, and my plants are all doing well. I guess sooner or later high tech is going to get me. but I'm avaioding it as long as possible.

[glass-gardens]

I ran two fermentation generators for the longest time on a 75 with only about a .2 pH fluctuation overnight simply by turning up the filter, however, I could never get the CO2 level above 15PPM in that tank simply because the DIY generators just didn't put out enough. But I still had great plant growth, any CO2 is better than no CO2 in my opinion.

It's been my experience that unless you want to use a pH controller, trying to stabilize pH levels can many times lead to worse fluctuations than "set it and forget it" so you want to be careful, and if you're using a fermentation generator, it's rather hard to shut off the CO2

[daveedka]

My point is this, I am not home on a daily basis (usually gone monday through friday about 45 weeks each year) to turn off the co2 or turn up a filter or do anything else, I am satisfied with my plant condition, but would like to increase growth, and eliminate some minor algea issues as well. Before I start with any kind of Co2 addition I am trying to figure out if it can be done properly withut risking my fish and without being there every day to babysit it.

I have read enough to believe that I should be able to add some Co2 and not have to worry about my fish. I realise I can't push the limits or drive my plants really hard, but hinestly I don't have the light for that anyhow. I'm just trying to verify things. If turning off Co2 isn't an option, turning up my filter at night isn't either.
Dave

[glass-gardens]

Then unfortunately a pH controller in conjunction with a solenoid activated regulator would be the only option I can think of.

[ChicoRaton]

well, you could also plug the solenoid valve into the same timer as the lights so that the co2 is only running when the lights are...or simply run a low CO2 level. I'd just find the bubble rate that puts your CO2 at 20ppm right after lights-on and I'd leave it there. less fluctuation than trying to manually control it with a timer, etc.

[beviking]

Pressurized 24/7. Other than initial bubble rate, I haven't touched mine since I set it up 6 months ago.

[daveedka]

I'd just find the bubble rate that puts your CO2 at 20ppm right after lights-on and I'd leave it there. less fluctuation than trying to manually control it with a timer, etc. Pressurized 24/7. Other than initial bubble rate, I haven't touched mine since I set it up 6 months ago.

thanks everyone, this is what I was looking for, For starters my plan was to build a couple of generators and just up the levels somewhat, then gradually see how high a bubblerate I need to find a good level. Once things are determined I figured I'd get a bottle set up and go with that. With my light levels, I can really run things without Co2, but as said I just keep wanting a little more so I'll eventually be high tech I imagine.
Dave

[ChicoRaton]

Make sure you get a good needle valve or it'll be more work than yeast based:P I bought a pressurized system and I've been messing with it every couple days to keep the bubble rate constant. I'l going to eventually shell out another $15 or $20 or so for a decent valve, but until then it's kind of a headache... oh speaking of that, I built the coolest co2 reactor... I'll post about it in DIY

[Otocinclus]

Changing out dihydrogen oxide is 10x the chore of carbon dioxide. I swear we are water caretakers, not fish/plant caretakers.

The people who lost fish from too much CO2 had to have been (mis)using pressurized systems. (or maybe used a whole packet of yeast!) I have found that its almost impossible to inject too much CO2 with DIY when the right amount of yeast is used. I agree with what others have said, a full teaspoon is waaay too much for a 2L setup.

Thanks for posting the Jello recipe Starry, I think I will try that in a few weeks.

[TKOS]

Well that all depends on the buffering capacity of your water. My brother found out the hard way about his KH and GH.

[happychem]

And tank size. I'll wager that without a KH boost I could easily nuke one of my 10g tanks with a single bottle of yeast-sugar CO2.

[Otocinclus]

Hmmm I guess I never thought about that.

I apologize for saying that people might have misused CO2, (basically out of my ignorance) I do know a little on the subject but am certainly not an expert. I have never measured KH for CO2 regulation, thinking that I would never be able to inject too much. The water in my area also naturally has semi-high PH and KH.

Guess this directly relates to the first post and goes to show that I have been lucky, and that monitoring PH-KH is important with use of CO2.

[Tim Bo]

More than you need to know about yeast :

http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aquaria/diyco2.html#4

[OnyxFishies]

http://www.aquatic-gardeners.org/Nyberg_yeast.ppt

I found the points about nourishing the yeast interesting, I've often contemplated it, my fiance works with a bunch of yeast biochmists, but none of them could provide me with more details about what's actually in their yeast media.

I'm trying out her recipe now. I'll post later if I think there's any significant advantage over the simple sugar & yeast mix. Worst case scenario, I've got a bunch of protein mix now, I'm gonna be HUGE!:D j.k.

I will add one more thing, I switched from bread to champagne yeast for this new batch. It seemed to start working right away, whereas the bread yeast took a full day to get rolling.

Just curious: did the protein mix yeast solution work any better than normal sugar solution?

[happychem]

Well, it's tough to say in terms of mix lifetime, I found that I was getting some leaks in some of my caps, so now that those have been replaced, there's definitely a longer lifetime, since the yeast doesn't need to be really cranking to get CO2 into the tank.

The best thing that I've found from it is that the yeast at the bottom of the solution can be reused over and over again. So instead of rehydrating a new batch of yeast, not to mention buying more, I just have to syphon off the top liquid and pour the settled yeast, or rather about 1/3 of it into the new bottle.

Plus the post-fermentation solution doesn't taste terrible, but a little weak, I'll need to work on the flavour. ;)

[Paccula]

Maintaining the appropriate amount of dissolved CO2 is an important part of a planted aquarium. Most planted aquariums require around 1 gram of dissolved CO2 for every 25 gallons of water. By comparing the pH value of the water and the carbonate hardness (KH) as determined through test kits it is easy to derive the milligrams per quart of CO2 through the use of a simple flow chart which is available from many sources, one of which is here: http://www.aquabotanic.com/charts.htmLen

great post, and very informative. I imediately printed out this post, went to the site sugested and printed out that chart, and all other information I could find on this topic. I was feeling ready to examine my tank and figure out if/how I should tackle the CO2, when I noticed that my test kit for KH and Chuck Gadd's (who made that chart) must be different. He shows KH as going from 0.5 to 15.0 whereas my test kit shows "Total Alkalinity (KH) ppm-freshwater 0 to 300" where 0-40 is low, 80 moderate, 120-180 ideal, and 300 high.
I test often, and my KH is usually around 150, though it does fluctuate slightly. My pH is usually 7.3, but I have noticed when it is lower (about 7) KH is higher (about 200) and when pH is around 7.5, then KH is about 120. These fluctuations (as far as my knowledge goes) are probably from having plants, treating disease, and finally removing the plants (which were not fairing well, but java fern was doing decently).

to make a long question short, I was wondering how to convert KH at ppm to however Chuck Gadd has his, so I can use the chart he made. or, if anyone knows a chart that uses KH in ppm format, if they could give a link.

[glass-gardens]

To convert KH test readings in PPM to use the following formula KH(deg)=KH(PPM)/17.86

[Paccula]

THANK YOU!!

as far as I can see, my water is perfectly fine in terms of pH, KH, and CO2 for both plants and fish, and even with the fluctuations it has always been in ok to good range. this is good because I don't need to alter KH or CO2, but it means something else is stunting my plants. (and that could be a very long list of things. but at least I can cross CO2 off the list!)

thanks again!

[Paul Trow]

The original post begins by saying:

"Owing to the fact that one our members recently lost a number of fish, due to improper use of CO2, I felt a need to post on this subject, regarding the dangers as well as the attributes of using gas in the planted tank."

But it doesn't really talk about the dangers of using gas. What are they? In particular, why did "one of our members" recently lose a number of fish? If that question is answered in a thread started by the person who lost the fish, could someone please provide a link to that thread? Thanks.

[carpguy]

There two different problems you can come up against with CO2.

You can poison the fish, that is pump in so much CO2 that it reaches toxic levels.

When CO2 dissolves in water Carbonic Acid is produced as a byproduct. Folks with low KH water risk pH crashes when injecting CO2 unless they're mindful of their buffer.

I don't know which problem afflicted the member that inspired the original post.

[ambrosiamonkey]

I set up a DIY CO2 reactor four days ago, using the jello recipe provided above.

I have been monitoring pH levels, and have only today seen a small drop, from 7.6 to 7.4. I can't see any bubbles coming out of the bubble counter.

The room the tank is generally cool, currently about 60-62 degrees F. I am wondering if this low temperature could be slowing the metabolic activity of the yeast, and if so, does anyone have any suggestions?

[Cruise Control]

IME, yes. More C02 is produced in warmer temps. Whenever my room is hot, C02 production increases and when I've got the air conditioning turned on, it slows down dramatically.

[ambrosiamonkey]

Any suggestions on how to do this? The tank is kept in a very cool part of the house- the central heating vent is pretty inadequate, I have a space heater I use when I am in the room, but I can't safely leave that running all day (not to mention that would be expensive.)

Is there something that I could wrap the reactor in to keep it warmer? Would that help? I have a polystyrene box I think the reactor would fit into. I'll try that out and report back.

[happychem]

Warm water bath? Never tried it, but if you had a spare heater and a water tight box to keep it in you could regulate the temp. that way.

[ambrosiamonkey]

Warm water bath? Never tried it, but if you had a spare heater and a water tight box to keep it in you could regulate the temp. that way.

Good idea. I do have an extra heater, and I have some extra 5 gallon buckets from when I moved and was saving tank water. I will try that when I get home. Thanks!

[happychem]

It may take a little work to keep the bottle submerged. Like I said, I've never tried it, but I can imagine the bottle trying to float or turn sideways on you, make sure you anchor it securely.

[carpguy]

You could also try putting the Yeast Bottles on one of those reptile warmer heat pad type things. Avoid that whole floating issue. Or maybe just don't fill the buckets too high.

Yeast should be OK in the low 60s, not booming but stable and longer lasting. Heat will definitely increase the activity of the yeast (and likewise their output), but it also opens the door to bacteria that may successfully outcompete the yeast. Most beer and wine is fermented sub 70 to avoid this. Not an argument against heating, just something to keep in mind.

You might add more capacity and enjoy the longer lasting mix or add heat and keep output high. But you should be getting production as is.

Is there activity in the bottles?

Have you checked for leaks downline from the bubblecounter?

[ambrosiamonkey]

It may take a little work to keep the bottle submerged. Like I said, I've never tried it, but I can imagine the bottle trying to float or turn sideways on you, make sure you anchor it securely.

Yes, I was thinking about that. Right now, the jello mix is new, and fills probably 2/3 of the bottle, so that would weigh it down pretty well, but as the yeast consumes the sugar, I could see that becoming a problem. But I think that even if I just keep the water bath at the same level or only slightly above where the jello is in the bottle, and keep the bucket covered (without crimping the airline or the heater's power cord) it should be an improvement over where things are now.

[TKOS]

Go to a do it yourself wine store. They sell heating belts that keep things warm. They work on giant carboys and help the yeast keep working even in my dad's cold basement. Depending on the size of the reactor you might need 2 but 1 should be good enough and you won't have to run a heater too long or risk spilling a tub of water.

[ambrosiamonkey]

You could also try putting the Yeast Bottles on one of those reptile warmer heat pad type things. Avoid that whole floating issue. Or maybe just don't fill the buckets too high.

Yeast should be OK in the low 60s, not booming but stable and longer lasting. Heat will definitely increase the activity of the yeast (and likewise their output), but it also opens the door to bacteria that may successfully outcompete the yeast. Most beer and wine is fermented sub 70 to avoid this. Not an argument against heating, just something to keep in mind.

You might add more capacity and enjoy the longer lasting mix or add heat and keep output high. But you should be getting production as is.

Is there activity in the bottles?

Have you checked for leaks downline from the bubblecounter?

This is useful to know. Maybe I will try the water bath, but gradually increase the heater temp until I find a happy medium spot where things are just a little more active. The yeast is active in the bottle, and I have looked for and haven't found any leaks in the line.

Before happychem suggested the water bath, I was thinking about getting one of those electrical heating pads, wrapping it around the bottle and sticking it in the polystyrene box. But then I wouldn't have as much control over the temperature as I do with an aquarium heater.

I might think about adding another bottle as well, especially if the water heater in the 5 gallon bucket turns out to be more complicated than it sounds. As it is, I'm storing the (empty) buckets in the cabinet under the tank, so it's not too complicated to put some water in one of them right where it is.

I'll keep you all posted on how this turns out. Thanks for all your helpful suggestions!

[ambrosiamonkey]

Last night I set up the water bath for the 2-liter bottle in a 5 gallon bucket with my extra heater set at 68 degrees F. Rested the bucket lid lightly on top, closed the doors to the aquarium stand, and this morning, the pH registered a drop from 7.4 to 7.2, so things appear to be moving in the right direction. I will check everything again today when I get home from work.

I am thinking that I may put the heater on the same timer system that the tank lights are on, so that the yeast is more active during the daytime, and can rest for a bit overnight. I'm not sure what the lag time is between the heater coming on and yeast becoming more active, but it would lengthen how long the jello mix lasts, right? Or is it better to have a constant supply of CO2, even if the lights are off? Would turning the heater on and off make the pH fluctuate too much? If anyone has any thoughts, I'd be interested to hear them.

Thanks!

[happychem]

I just leave mine alone. CO2 levels don't get too high and the plants produce so much O2 during the day that the water stays pretty close to saturated, or at least it doesn't take long to start pearling after the lights come on.

[sick-lid]

extra money saving tip.

I bought a co2 bottle and then went to a welding shop. they matched the fitting to a spare regulator they had laying around and attached a flow meter. the whole thing caost me 15 bucks and has been running great for two years. i run a bubble wall on a timer at night to off-gas the excess.

sure beats paying 150 or more for a regulator at your LFS.

[Betowess]

extra money saving tip.

I bought a co2 bottle and then went to a welding shop. they matched the fitting to a spare regulator they had laying around and attached a flow meter. the whole thing caost me 15 bucks and has been running great for two years. i run a bubble wall on a timer at night to off-gas the excess.

sure beats paying 150 or more for a regulator at your LFS.

Well, if you search online one can find Milwaukee all in one regulators with built in needlevalve, solenoid, and bubble counter for about $60 to $65.00 bucks these days. Of course in my state a 10lb tank of CO2 is going for another $80. And you can build a DIY reactor out of PVC for about $20.00.

[bluejay]

I had a leaking prob. with the diy yeast. Went to the hardware store and a very helpful employee showed me a quick connect and a nut that goes with it, which I used like a bulkhead fitting with silicone sealant in between. I use the hard milky tubing as it is supposedly co2 safe and very cheap at the store. I use an orange juice bottle and the whole setup is easy to maintain. And yea don't throw away the yeast, just decant the liquid, there is dead cells on the bottom which provide nutrients and I also added a teaspoon of flour and one multivitamin pill who knows they might help.

[redrocksedona]

Today I tried to set up a DIY/Power reactor for my aquarium plants (going for a Amazon biotope for those interested). With best intentions I have read the directions, made the bottle, followed the recipe and set the reactor according to directions. And I thought everything was fine until I returned from doing laundry to find there about five gallons of water on the floor that had backed-flowed through the tubing...OK I wanted to do a water change just not onto the floor.

So I humbly ask as a DIY CO2 newbie yet fast learner...what am I doing wrong here? Do I need some kind of inline backflow valve? Do I have a defective powerhead? Am I cursed to going back to only having silk and plastic plants?

[Harlock]

check valves work wonders.

[happychem]

It is unbelieveably easy to start a syphon with airline tubing. I suspect that the tubing got a little too close to the intake somehow and the intake sucked up some yeast mix, then the suction slacked and it flowed back the other way starting a syphon. Just guessing, though. Yeah, check valves are a great idea.

[redrocksedona]

Thanks Harlock & Happychem the check valve is doing the trick with no more pooling. At the end of replacing syphoned water it turns out that it was closer to ten gallons that ended up on the floor. But now everything is fine and about the only complaint is the reliablity of the yeast I am using? well I guess? What is being generated has not been steady but then mayby it is suppose to be in sperts? The problem with being a newbie is not exactly knowing what to expect. What I am hoping is that it will be enough before I think about a tank and controler set-up and have the income for that.

[happychem]

I'm not quite sure of what you're asking.

[redrocksedona]

Are your basic DIY units suppose to act like they are not doing anything half the time? IE going in sperts Currently mine is silent nothing happing at all...could not be any more quiet if it were unpluged with no bottle hooked up...then some time tonight I will look over at it and there are bubbles.

So the question is should it be this intermittent?

And if not what steps would improve it?
Like using different yeast? Or Jell-O? …or shortening the tubing?

[happychem]

Ah! Gotcha. No, it should be pretty consistent. Although if you have a "U" in the tubing, like to run it up into a filter intake or a powerhead it can be a little intermittant as water will try to flow into the tube (by gravity) and the gas has to build up enough strength to push it out. It usually results in spurts of very fast bubbling follwed by a couple seconds of repressurizing, the length of which would be determined by the length of the U.

Use Champagne yeast, it's tolerant to a higher alcohol percentage and to a lower pH, I believe.

Here's a recipe that will allow you to re-use the same yeast over and over:
for every 2L:
1 cup sugar
1 tbsp. molasses
2-3 tsp. protein mix
1-2 tsp. baking powder or soda (I use powder, twice as effective plus supplies Ca)

I find that each bottle lasts about 10 days in my appartment which we keep at about 20oC (68oF). Warmer means higher output and shorter life. More yeast means higher output, shorter life. More sugar will increase the lifespan to a limit, but I prefer to just stick to a generous cup. 1c. sugar produces roughly 10% alcohol, champagne yeast can tolerate up to about 19%, but why push it? One packet cost me about $2 and was enough to make 3 bottles (I only made 2 and wasted a bit).

At the end of 10 days use some airline tubing to syphon off the surface liquid trying to keep as much of the gunk as possible (this is your yeast). Since this recipe actually nourishes the yeast, the colony will be growing and every few months you'll need to dump out a little to keep the production rate at a reasonable level.

I use 2x2L bottles linked through a T-juntion, use a gang valve for larger batches, never daisy chain them. That's for a 33g tank, every week to 10 days I change the oldest bottle. So there's always one fresh bottle and one older one. I don't think that the older one has much production, but it does still have a little. Mixing up a fresh batch takes me less than 5 minutes. I have a spare bottle that I just leave aside (from the extra yeast) so that I can brew a fresh batch the day before I need it and let it prime overnight. It's a bit of an art form to get it tweaked just right for your setup, but once you get it setup and working like it should, it's really easy.

Final note: always make sure that the water for the yeast is dechlorinated and not too hot (30oC or lower)

[redrocksedona]

2-3 tsp. protein mix? huh?

Like protein mixes used for dieting? or something all together different?


And Thanks so much you have been so helpfull. I suspected the great loop I had in the tubing might have been part of the problem.

[spinjector]

Hi guys this is my first post here. I've been reading this whole CO2 thread with interest, as I am an enthusiastic proponent of DIY CO2, and I've always wondered about different types of yeasts and nutrient mixtures.

In reading the posts about keeping DIY CO2 bottles warm in cold rooms, the following idea just popped into my head:

Ditch the whole heater/water bath and put the heater *in* the bottle..!!

The LFS's around here all carry those sealed submersiable Hagen heaters, which are only about 1/2 inch in diameter - small enough to fit through the neck of a 2 liter bottle.

But to do this you need to do a little electrical work - and I don't want anyone zapping themselves, so be careful. All you need to do is be comfortable and competent enough to install a replacement AC plug like if you broke the plug off the end of the lamp from your living room or something.

1) Get the smallest of those submersible Hagen heaters, which I believe is 25 watts - which is teensy - 1/2" around by 6" long. I think they might even have smaller ones for fishbowls. The 25w ones cost about 15$ around here.

2) Hack the plug off the end of the cord. NOTE: If one of the blades of the plug is larger than the other ("polarized"), closely examine the wires where you cut the plug off and keep track of which wire goes to the bigger blade. Usually the black wire goes to the small blade and the white wire goes to the big blade - assuming the wires are colored under the jacket, which they may not be. If you have to, put a piece of tape on the wire that goes to the big blade and label it "big blade". I will leave this detail up to the individual.

3) Poke an extra hole in the bottle cap of your 2 liter DIY bottle, and pull the cord through. Leave it hang out enough so it's supended in the bottle at a good depth, but *completely* submerged. You might even want to tie a knot in the cord, or maybe wrap a lump of electrical tape around it where it goes through the cap, so as to keep the heater suspended at the proper height.

4) Spooge up the cord with silicone on both sides of the cap to seal it well.

5) Then take that spare lamp plug from Home Depot or whereever and install it on the end of the cord. As described in step #3 above, make sure you keep track of which wire goes on which terminal, but only if the original plug that you cut off was "polarized" that way.

6) Put the heater in a bucket of water with a thermometer, and let it sit for a while to get it set for about 70 degrees.

7) Slip the heater into the bottle and screw down the cap like usual.

Voila! A DIY CO2 bottle with built-in climate control..!! You could even get one of those little stick-on thermometer decals and stick it right on the bottle to make sure the temp stays around 70 or whatever you want it to be.

[spinjector]

The best thing that I've found from it is that the yeast at the bottom of the solution can be reused over and over again.

So that tan colored sludge at the bottom of the bottle is the actual yeast culture..? And you can actually leave it there and only change the water mixture above it...?

[happychem]

2-3 tsp. protein mix? huh?

Like protein mixes used for dieting? or something all together different?Yes, that's the stuff. I use the stuff from the grocery store aisle, I suppose I could shop around a little more... But in any case, I read through the ingredients and instructions between a couple different protein supplement powders and picked the one with the most grams of protein per arbitrary serving size (say tablespoon) so that I was adding mostly protein and less flavourings and colourings.

So that tan colored sludge at the bottom of the bottle is the actual yeast culture..? And you can actually leave it there and only change the water mixture above it...? If you follow that recipe, yes. That recipe (Tara Nyberg's) provides nourishment for the yeast cells so that they can grow and live. Just sugar water doesn't provide the cells with all that they need, it's like if you tried to live off nothing but rice, you'd get the carbs necessary for energy, but not the protein and nutrients needed to build and repair tissue.

[Dragon Queen]

I'm looking at putting co2 on my 29gal after I upgrade my lights.
Can I put two 1L bottles, so I can alternate switching them or would those be to small?

[happychem]

I use 2x2L on my 33g. I would recomend the same for a 29g, just taylor your formulation to have a little less yeast to start with so that the output is slightly less, mind you it occurs to me that this is a pretty terrible relative explanation since you have no clue how much yeast I use. At any rate, use 2x2L as well and just adjust your yeast quantity so that the output is appropriate to your tank, the batches should last that much longer.

[Dragon Queen]

happychem, do you alternate switching your bottles or do them both at the same time?

[happychem]

I alternate, I change one every week to 10 days, depending on how the bubble rate is going.

[Dragon Queen]

I have seen alot of people saying that bio-wheels are bad with diy CO2, can you take the wheel of a penguin or emperor and use the hob part still?

[spinjector]

I have seen alot of people saying that bio-wheels are bad with diy CO2, can you take the wheel of a penguin or emperor and use the hob part still?Yes any kind of water agitation will out-gas your CO2, just like shaking a bottle of Coke. And you will still lose CO2 even if the biowheel doesn't agitate the water much. It's just like a like a glass of soda sitting on the table overnight losing its fizz - it happens through the surface of the liquid, and the increased surface area of the biofilter will accellerate this.

[Dragon Queen]

Yes any kind of water agitation will out-gas your CO2, just like shaking a bottle of Coke. And you will still lose CO2 even if the biowheel doesn't agitate the water much. It's just like a like a glass of soda sitting on the table overnight losing its fizz - it happens through the surface of the liquid, and the increased surface area of the biofilter will accelerate this.


OK, so if I take the bio-wheel off it will still disperse co2 about 1/2? of what a hob w/ a wheel does. Or would there be a difference between the two?

[happychem]

I couldn't quite follow that, but here's a long, all encompassing answer. ;)

Using an HOB, take a filter sponge which has a long side a little bit longer than the filter outflow. Lay it on its side and cut a slit about 1/3 from the back along the long dimension. Slip this over the filter outflow with 1/3 of the sponge between the filter and tank (this will hold it in place) and 2/3 in front. The sponge will catch the return flow and nullify surface distruption.

[Dragon Queen]

Thanks happychem that gives me some more options. :bowing:

[Dragon Queen]

When I first started my kh was 240 to 300 and my ph was 8.0 to 8.4. Now two months later my kh is 180 and ph is 7.2 or 7.6. My hardness has also dropped a little and yes I have been doing water changes every week to 10 days about 20%. So far I've seen that a ph rises kh drops and vis versa so any ideas in my tank?
I am thinking about adding CO2 after I finish the lighting and adding more plants.

[Sand Trout]

You all seem much more knowledgeable than I am. I'm just an old fart that likes a heavily planted aquarium because it's pretty. But I just have to ask about the need for co2. When I decided to set up my tank which is small, 29gal, I read an article by someone on the net which gave instructions for setting up with a soil and vermiculite substrate fertilized with lilypons tablets and then gave setup instructions for a diy co2 setup. I did the substrate thing and added an extra light hood and never got around to the diy co2 because my plants are so thick that I have to prune every two weeks or so to give the fish room to swim. The plants are just a selection from the local tropical fish place here in Phoenix AZ, one of them is anacharas, that I know the name of (told you I was no expert) another is somewhat like underwater bermuda grass as it sprouts roots from every joint if it touches substrate, the rest are upright long oval leaf aquatics with a madagascar lace leaf among them. If I encouraged these things to do any better with carbon dioxide I'd be afraid of them growing out of the tank and attacking me in my sleep. Is it possible the substrate is more important than added gas?

[MrAquarium]

Ok I didn't read ever single post on this but skimmed over a few,
If you want to do CO2, A bottle is cheaper in the long run, Sugar and yeast add
up and if this is something you want to do for a very long time, look into the bottle,
I going to do a DIY co2 as I just want to give my plants a boost now an then.
First off, DOn;t goop your tube int he cap, it;s over rated and make save your rear from a bottle exploding, IF you use a check valve, check ti allot, I know somebody that had one melt shut and the bottle poped,
Just get the air line in the hole in the cap tight, The get a power head that has the air line that runs to it, and stick your airline right in the powerhead, Put 3 cups of water, 3 cups of sugar, shake this up, and a tsp of yeast in it, and then shake it up so it will ativate it, put the cap on and let the power head be your defuser, This will save you some money over the 6 cups of water and 6 cups of sugar and you would never have a bottle blow up on you,
I don;t believe every one I chat with that uses CO2, even test there water,
And never have a had any problem with a PH crash or any other thing of the like.
This is all true as the 3 people that told me about DIY co2 have kept fish allot more years then I have been alive, If you want to I can tell you who and the place they can be found.

[HeinekenMike]

I have a 72G could I do DIY?

[Kasakato]

Wow this is old. Start a new treand.

[HeinekenMike]

well this was listed as a sticky...

[Soulmanure]

Hey,
I put together a diy co2 bottle and it seems to be working fine. But reading through these posts it looks like one bottle for my 40 gallon tank isn't going to cut it. How many should I use?

[hadjici2]

If you continuesly run an airstone and a DIY co2 and you have a pH level of 7 does that mean that there is enough oxygen in the tank for the fish to be ok?

When do you know that CO2 levels have reached a toxic dangerous level?

[reziztor]

I use a Co2 can.

It is just a spray can of CO2. It has a small rubber tube attached to the outlet of the can and that goes into my tank where it is attached to a plastic container on suction cups attached to my tank walls. I just "spray" the CO2 a little bit every other day.... But my worry is that the CO2 is just dissolving out the surface... There is no diffuser.

[Ranger]

Since this is a sticky I thought I would pipe in and comment on some of the older subjects.

Co2 on or off at night?

It is done both ways successfully. Turning it off at night by using a solenoid control has the distinct advantage of the CO2 bottle lasting twice as long. Leaving it on at night also has some advantages. When your CO2 density is at 20ppm the plants do not use all that gas. Having an amount that high provides the plants with more access to “usable” CO2 molecules. Think of it like catching rain drops on your tongue. If it’s raining lightly you will catch less then when it’s raining hard but you never get all the drops. As an example: if you set the CO2 to 20ppm during peak photosynthesis hours then tested again in the middle of the night any differences would likely be less then the precision of your over the counter test kits. Therefore; the concern about -pH bounce from unused CO2 at night is not that big of a deal (natural ecosystems experience some pH fluctuations from night to day for a variety of reasons). On the other hand, turning the CO2 off at night can significantly reduce the amount and lead a +pH bounce. Also, plants can begin photosynthesizing within an hour of the light coming on, so if your CO2 levels are low because the system was off at night then some growth time is being wasted.

DIY Co2

Use a bucket of water with a heater to increase production. I don’t think putting the heater in the 2L bottle is a good idea. It’s enough of a hassle to unscrew the caps and change them without dealing with an extra power cord, and one small heater can heat a bucket with several bottles. I put the heater on the same timer as the lights (not for reducing CO2 at night but to help the mix last longer between changes). Use a reactor!!!! DIY or buy one they make a huge difference with a yeast set up. I ran a 45g tall on three 2L bottles (changed one weekly) and had levels as high as 35ppm easy.

Why use CO2?

I’ve seen some beautiful natural tanks that didn’t use any CO2, but the best tanks I’ve seen containing abundant varieties and lush dense growth used CO2.

[Onikun]

this post has been really helpful i'm gonna try it

[starcros]

Here is a site with great info on building DIY CO2 system.
http://kickmehard.com/?page_id=16

[vidiots]

After reading through the posts here, I thought I'd mention some observations I made using it.

First off I always had a problem with those cheap check valves you get at the LFS eventually getting stuck open rendering them useless. Usually from getting wet. Fortunately I never had any problems with one getting stuck closed, which I'm assuming could have resulted in a big mess.

I also never had a problem with the water syphoning all the way back to the bottle, although it was close a few times, but never had a flood.

One of the things I did to eliminate this problem was to set the bottle on top of the light fixtures above the tank. This fixed the syphoning. I think I would still use the check valve close to the bottle and far from the tank, just to keep it from getting wet, which should eliminate the check valve eventually getting stuck.

Setting the bottle on the top of the light fixtures had an additional side effect, they lasted days longer. I'm assuming this is because they were slightly warmed by the heat comming off the light fixture. After reading the other posts I think this would be easier and cheaper than the other suggestions mentioned for warming the bottles.

[BowMaster]

Hey, guys. I'm new to the CO2 Game. I have a 72g planted tank and am wondering how many bubbles per second I should be using. It isn't too densly populated with plants, but it seems I am using too much CO2. I'm already running at over 2 to 2.5 bubbles/second. I have a really good reactor so I'm getting very good diffusion. I test my pH and it is still above 7.0, could this just be because my water is so hard. If I brought my GH down would this effect the way my CO2 changes my pH?

I also have quite a good light. It is a 260w, 48 inch, compact flourescent, full spectrum light.

Also, I know some of you guys must have a similar sized, heavily planted tank. How much CO2 do you need?

Lyle

[attack11]

bringing the kh down to around 6-7 will allow for your co2 ppm to increase because it's not being absorbed by the buffer; and your ph will drop.

plants and fish do great with soft, acidic water; i run a ph of 6.5 (probe controlled) and a kh of roughly 6 to get 61-67ppm of co2. under poor conditions that's enough co2 to stress and kill fish, but the acidic/soft water really promotes nutrient uptake in the plants and with high light you'll have pearling on avg by around hr 5-6 of your light cycle which provides more o2 than needed in the water column. during the off hours when the plants switch to co2 production you wanna turn off your injection if you go for high ppm; or things die.

most people tend to shoot for 20-30ppm of co2 (there's a lot of charts online to help you achieve that) because it's safer and easier to manage while providing more than enough co2 for plants to do photosynthesis. hard water makes growing plants exceptionally difficult because you can't get the co2 ppm up to a useful amount.

somewhere around 50gl diy becomes inefficient and simply can't provide enough co2 so pressurized is what you want to eventually go to if you're trying to do a high tech tank (2+ wpg / micro + macro dosing / co2).

i also just wanted to point regarding the first post of this thread; co2 is not a nutrient.

[azrednex]

I've been brewing beer for awhile now and I have a few things to contribute here on the properties of yeast and it's "nutrients".
1) yeast is a single celled organism and therefore has a VERY simple metabolism, the only nutrient that it needs to grow is sugar the protien boosters are silly , and to say that the yeast need the protien by comparing them to something like a human metabolism that needs thousands of elements and compounds to funtion is silly
2) most yeast will produce best between 65 - 75 degrees F
3) beer yeast will typically withstand about 8% alchohol ,wine and champange yeast 12 - 16% and bread yeast (little dry packets) usually about 25%(nobody brews with it becuase it tastes like crap).

BTW the "sludge" left on the bottom of the reaction chamber when the fermentation is done is called the leese (LEEZ) and consist mostly of dormant yeast cells IMO its a good idea to use this again, as soon as the alchohol % comes down and there is simple sugars present the yeast will become active again and do their thing.

Now I have a question. I have never injected CO2 into an aquarium I have my first planted tank going now (90g) I had decent growth for a bit them I loaded up with a few more plants and the growth slowed greatly, at this point I'm looking at either fertilizing or CO2. I would like to know how to decide which suppliment I need and if DIY CO2 injectors are practical for this size tank (it sounds like I would need 5 or 6 2L bottles)

[fresh_newby]

Hey, guys. I'm new to the CO2 Game. I have a 72g planted tank and am wondering how many bubbles per second I should be using. It isn't too densly populated with plants, but it seems I am using too much CO2. I'm already running at over 2 to 2.5 bubbles/second. I have a really good reactor so I'm getting very good diffusion. I test my pH and it is still above 7.0, could this just be because my water is so hard. If I brought my GH down would this effect the way my CO2 changes my pH?

I also have quite a good light. It is a 260w, 48 inch, compact flourescent, full spectrum light.

Also, I know some of you guys must have a similar sized, heavily planted tank. How much CO2 do you need?

Lyle


Don't mess with your GH. Test your KH. You may just have hard water. What is your pH out of the tap? If you naturally have a KH of 7 or 8 <or higher> Than you are fine. You will just have a higher pH to achieve the desired CO2 needed for your tank. Check this reading before making any changes.

[WeeNe858]

i read somwhere that a good amount of co2 makes your ph drop 0.6-1.0.. seems like alot but iono.. i have yet to try it




http://www.aquariaplants.com/pressurizedco2.htm

[Joanne/Canadian]

Hi Len

Thanks for the info re CO@. I have a 92 G heavily planted tank with a pressurized CO2 system. My plants are doing beautifully (I now have to rim weekly) and most fish (Kribensis, balloon rams, Siamese Algae eaters, Auto cats amd pearl gouramis) as well, (except for Dwarf Gouramis - they die in a couple of days). I keep the PH monitor at 6.5 which automatically dispenses PH at any PH level above that. It seems fairly reliable and the plants are thriving. I was curious, however, about your reference to KH in your post; I don't measure KH and it is 0 in our tap water. I was told that if I add a buffer solution, which increases both KH and PH that with the pressurized CO2 system all I am doing is converting the buffer to water? The same person told me that the plants release O2 which raises the PH and once this increased PH is detected by the monitor that the CO2 is dipenses. There was no mention of KH. Can you let me know if you have further advice on this as I question the water quality with the Dwarf gouramis not living long (they require very high quality water)?

Kind regards,
Jo

[Joanne/Canadian]

Hi all

I have a pressurized CO2 system with PH monitor and I am looking for recommendations on a dispenser/reactor to provide efficient diffusion, preferrably without unsightly canisters in my tank.

Kind regards,
Jo

[Mikael]

Fully agree. With a good reactor it is not difficult or very hard work to have good CO2 levels in a decent sized tank. Mine is 63g and the CO2 is stable at around 25 ppm using only two cups of sugar per week. I use six 2L bottles (changing the content in one of them every week; there is still some reaction going on after six weeks I might add). When I change bottles I let the bottle with the new mixture sit disconnected to the system for at least two days to get rid of the air in the bottle. This air would otherwise end up in the reactor.

The reactor itself is very, very easy to make. I use Hagen's gravel vacum (older model) fed by a 16/22 Eheim tube attached to an Eheim 1000l/h compact pump. These pumps are ideal as you can adjust the output.


...Use a reactor!!!! DIY or buy one they make a huge difference with a yeast set up. I ran a 45g tall on three 2L bottles (changed one weekly) and had levels as high as 35ppm easy....

[pittwood]

How often would you need to add a new mixture of sugar and yeast for a 55g?

[odannyboy]

you can get electronic solenoid valves that will switch gas off at night.jbl do them but prob not cheap!just use a electronic plug in timer. i am planning to set up a pressurised system and theoretically i think it makes sense to switch off at night,but lots say not to bother.??any responces???

[andrew.ars]

I am starting a 100 gallon planted tank with small fish. The tank will not be heavly planted do i still need co2 and if so can i use a diy setup?

How many 2L bottles
How to dissolve the gas (recommendations) I was thinking of the gravel vac idea but using the output from a xp4 instead of a seprate pump

[pearllady]

Hi all after reading this thread I made my own reactor and it works great.
I asked my local fish store expert about the DIY method and he recomended that I turn it off at night so the plants can expell O2. So during the day they
plants take in Co2 and at night they expell O2. Sounds logical to me any one heard of this?

Pearllady
10 gal ---- 5.5 gal --- 1.5 planted tank
5 neon tetras -- 3 male guppies
2 butterfly plectomosis- Mtn snails
Mtn snails

20 gal --- 5.5 Quarintine tank
3 cana snails-- 2 female guppies
-- 2 Ottocinlus
30 gal 2 fancy goldfish

[andrew.ars]

I am not going to get into the fight of to turn of or not but i do know that if you opt to turn it off at night do not use a valve either remove the tube from the tank or disconnect it if you trap the co2 with a valve some thing will pop maybe a tube but if a bottle pops it will make a huge mess and might be dangerous

[spacemonster]

I don't think there's any reason to disconnect a DIY setup, unless the pH drops too low. Plants can release oxygen in light or dark regardless of the CO2 concentration. Plants need light to absorb and process CO2, so turning off a pressurized supply at night will conserve CO2 while the plants aren't using it. Theoretically, turning the system off can prevent pH drops at night, but I've read several reports of people claiming that the shift was more drastic when switched on and off. With a DIY system, it seems like too much hassle to mess with anyway since it can't be automated.

[mellowvision]

after all this discussion, has there been a concensus as to the most stable recipe?

[HeyThere]

I've just started a 5 1/2 gallon plant-only tank and I also would like some consensus. I've read this entire thread, and needless to say my head is spinning. Since my tank is without fish, I'm not planning on monitoring any levels.

Can someone recommend a starter recipe? I'm planning on using bread yeast, as I have no idea where to get the champagne. What is the purpose of using jello, does it last longer? I didn't see any additional posts answering how often you need to make a new mix... or change it... what do you do, and when? If it stops bubbling air into your tank? Are we talking weeks, or months?

I have bigger thick cat-litter containers I'm planning on using. I have check valves, did I read correctly that this should be placed closer to the tank? Also, instead of cutting the plug-end of the heater off, you could use a razor-knife and cut a slot into the plastic, where the lid screws on? Then you could goop silicone around it, let it cure, then goop around the lid and seal.

I have an extra heater, tubing, silicone, airstone, all I need is some tried-and-tested info. Oh, another thing, if you're afraid of it busting/overflowing, couldn't you set the entire thing into a garbage can? That way, less to clean up.

Thanks for anything and everything...

[grumpygrady]

just was reading about diy CO2
cool
you folks do realize that you are making wine this way right or beer
they both are made this way
so if i start my five gallons of homemade beer i can use the co2 that comes off of it to help my plants
and the fish and plants i can watch while drinking the beer i made last month
i love my hobby's and each helps the others

[HeyThere]

I hope someone answers soon, I'd like to start....

[UCF-Planted]

I used this site to get me started: http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aquaria/diyco2.html. It gave me lots of ideas to work with and a pretty solid starting recipe.

[HeyThere]

Thanks... now where's that aspirin?! :help:

[HeyThere]

Well, after deciding to attempt a homemade reactor, then being thoroughly confused, I decided NOT to make a yeast reactor yesterday in disgust. Then, i am paging through a catalog last night, and I see this:

Natural Aquarium Vital

No need for CO2 cylinders, controllers, or monitors. Reduces the need for fertilization. 16 oz. bottle will treat a 50 gallon tank for up to 3 months.

Hello? Why haven't I heard of this?! This is much simpler, no... anyone have any opinions on it?

[Rex Grigg]

It will work quite well as a lubricant for legless reptiles.

Not so well in the aquarium.

[Nolapete]

Haha Rex...Snake Oil

[HeyThere]

Forget it.

[HeyThere]

I ripped down my plant tank yesterday... I give up.

[kr0nic]

I ripped down my plant tank yesterday... I give up.

You gave up after about 2 weeks :S Cmon give it another shot!

[Rex Grigg]

Two weeks? Hope you never have children.

[Lansirill]

Two weeks? Hope you never have children.

I don't understand what the problem is here. I've tried having children several times. I've found that they require an awful lot of upkeep and, frankly, plastic ones look almost as good. I've always just ripped out the real ones, replaced them with fakes and nobody has ever noticed.

[gupman]

Was just reading about the bottle yeast co2 injection. I make wine and they make 5 gallon buckets for it...hmm I wonder how much co2 this would produce enough for a 55 gallon i know the yeast you get from wine making sites are good and it would bubble for a month or so...even if it slows you can just add more sugar....any thoughts?

[gupman]

could you use corn sugar would produce more?

[grumpygrady]

yes when i make beer
i use corn syrup to make it stronger IE malt syrup ,corn syrup and yeast
wine the same thing
the yeast will stay alive until the alcohol is to strong and kills them

[vinny-rocks]

New to the forum and wanted to say that it is outstanding. I have my diy co2 set up on a 29 gallon tank and the plants are responding well. I just started the tank about a month ago so all i have for now are some java moss, ferns , cllover and wysteria. will post pics once it looks a little better. Oh a note for the diy bottle I used the standard aquarium sealant around the fitting into the bottle and itworked well.

Thanks again for the info

Vinny

[Octavarium]

Im gonna rent a CO2 tanker trailer and park it in my backyard. Will run an airline hose up through my window into my tank, should last enough in a 55 g.

[leocom2000]

My aquarium has pressurized system with PH monitor/controller. It shuts CO2 off during the night (ph 6.8) and turn back on during the day when ph rises. If I had it on during the night, it would go way below 6.0. If you go pressurized, get a controller.

[masser]

From the original post 5 years ago:



Maintaining the appropriate amount of dissolved CO2 is an important part of a planted aquarium. Most planted aquariums require around 1 gram of dissolved CO2 for every 25 gallons of water. By comparing the pH value of the water and the carbonate hardness (KH) as determined through test kits it is easy to derive the milligrams per quart of CO2 through the use of a simple flow chart which is available from many sources, one of which is here: http://www.aquabotanic.com/charts.htm
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I will add one comment to the above:
Before contemplating the use of CO2 in your aquarium please know your water's kH. If it is not, at minimum - 3.0dH, it should be raised before injecting gas.

Len

I am thinking about starting DIY CO2 in my 10 gal tank, but before I begin, I want to test the pH and hardness. When I started the tank, I used strips that indicated the water was slightly hard with a pH between 7.6 and 7.8. After the strips ran out, I moved to liquid tests for Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate, and completely stopped testing hardness and pH.

Can anyone recommend good liquid tests for pH and kH? I am thinking about buying from Dr Foster's ans Smith's website, but the range of options is intimidating? Given the reportedly unreliable nature of the strips I used, would it be safe to get the high pH range test kit?

[bradlgt21]

I use the API my LFS has pretty much every test kit made by them. I always use liquid. Makes me feel cool like a chemist or something.:D

Now for my question

I am still on my first DIY CO2 bottle. I did 2 cups of sugar and 1/2 TSP of yeast. I have a 29 gallon planted tank with a big hang on back filter. I wasn't seeing any change at first but wasn't really diffusing it either. I created a cool DIY diffuser out of PCV, Bioballs, and a water pump. Whenever I get time I will create a walkthrough as I took pictures in the process. But anyway I put it in and my ph dropped into the range I wanted. But then it rose back up after a day or two. I have had the same bottle for over 2 weeks now and wanted to know is it empty? I mean it still has water in it obviously but you can't tell if it's all used up. If I shake it the solution starts foaming and you see tons of bubbles being dumped into the tank. But the solution isn't giving off enough CO2 on it's own to drop my PH. Should I add more yeast or put a new bottle in? It's really hard to tell how often bubbles are coming out because the diffuser works so well I only get a few tiny bubbles every so often, like the rest are broken up completely before it even gets dumped into the tank.

[Cluunox]

I just put a 2l bottle on my 3 gal planted same mix cept I use 3/8 tsp. Not sure how long it will last but after being on the tank for 4 days c02 has leveled off at 20-25 ppm. ph from 7.8 to 7.2.

I am using neutrafin natural plant system bubble ladder at maximum setting. With your diffuser I would think you should be much more efficient than my setup but with the larger tank I would suspect you need more bottles for starters.

I am very interested in seeing your diffuser. I have been thinking of building a diffuser for the 10gl qt I have as I qt plants as well as keep some in there for hididng places also and am just using an air stone that does almost nothing at the moment.

[bradlgt21]

I think I am going to add a second bottle. If it gets to be to much I can always pull the plug on it.

Yeah I tried air stones and the CO2 didn't seem strong enough to push out the air stone. Hopefully I can get around to it tomorrow. Total cost was like $15 for the pump or cheapest you can find. $15-20 on the pvc piping and hose. And how ever much it costs for what you want to use to diffuse. My box of Bioballs was $10 but I got enough to build 2 more. When you add it up it sounds like a really expensive diffuser but like the guy at the fish store said after a couple months the bioballs should do their job and you will have a really nice bacteria colony. Not to mention it adds current if you need that for stream type fish.