This might start some contraversy but...

[managuay86]

I did it I actually hav a blue damsel and cichlids living together! I started to add a little bit of marine salt to my aquarium with my smaller cichlids everyday for the past 2 months and once the salinity level reached 1.016 i decided to add a damsel 3 weeks ago and it is still doing fine and what amazes me is that now I have two red devils, a jack dempsey, and a texes living with a blue damsel! They seem to be thriving and they all have healthy appetites. tell me what you think...

[Ghost_knife]

my god.....PUT THE MARINE FISH IN A MARINE TANK! YOUR KILLING YOUR FISH!
How in the hell can you say you love fish when you do this. This is assinine and immoral. your killing a stunning marine fish and whats worse is your killing your other fish in the process. you are ruining the other fishes scales and gills, they may not look it now but they will Die. what a stupid thing you've done.

your sig is right....you ride the special bus..

[Sully]

three words:

Take your medications.

Lighten up. I personally find the obscenity laced tirade more offensive than the misguided actions being discussed in the first place.

[liv2padl]

now sully ... you KNEW you were going to get flak for this. few people here can actually 'discuss' a topic intelligently and instead, feel the need to jump right on you with a bash and a crash and a wham and a bam.

personally, i guess i'm amazed that the damsel has fared so well ... so far. without having ANY information on this nor any experience, i would not expect the fish to thrive.

that said, i'm heading to the research room right now to try and become learned on this subject. who knows, i may find that damsels are among a small group of fish that can tolerate a range of salinity .. unlike most marine fishes.

[plah831]

Just a physiological note: water with lots of calcium ions (e.g. hard water) can sometimes support marine fishes at lower salinities. It happened in a fluke when scientists discovered what were considered totally marine species in a FW lake and wondered why. It's because the calcium (being divalent, +2 charge) can bind to the gills and prevent loss of salts (monovalent, +1 charge) from escaping their bodies, as would normally happen when saltwaer fish are put into freshwater. If I remember correctly, this is coming from straight memory.

But that's certainly NOT to say it's OK to do it in your own tank!!!

[sumthin fishy]

Controversey for sure. I wonder if you realise you are experimenting with a LIVING CREATURE?!
Have you even done the research to find out how or why there are fish that live in saltwater or freshwater and thier differences? Do you plan on publishing your findings? Would you have even cared (and not just the ding to your walet) if they all died? Do you have a theory? A controll? Are you keeping record of any and all variables? Are you doing this with a large number of tanks, compairing results, incase this is a freak accident and it will never ever work with another tank of the same conditions/inhabitants?

[plah831]

Exactly. We're all wondering WHY you would to that in the first place.

What was your reasoning? Was there any at all? How did you think you were going to justify it?

[Ghost_knife]

I was going to delete my original post but I think It stands nomatter how brash it is

[sumthin fishy]

Way to go NS, give me a chance to sound all smart and stuff. Theres gotta be someone in here yelling and cussing, and I think Im done with my turn of being that guy for a while :)

[DarkEntity]

I gotta agree, its possibly the stupidest thing you could experiment with, how could you even think about doing it?

You are damaging perfectly good fish, as mentioned if they dont look ill now they will do eventually :(

[beatle]

Interesting. Got any pics? Damsels are known to be aggressive SW fish, but how has the pecking order worked its way out with your cichlids? If someone else were to do this, it seems like it would make more sense to do this with african cichlids who already have hard water with a bit of salt in it.

[plah831]

the guy didn't come here to make friends, apparently :huh:

i think he knew what a sh*tstorm this would cause. if he was truly just curious, he would have done it in privacy and not told anyone about it. chalked it up as a failed learning experiment.

[dorkfish]

I did it I actually hav a blue damsel and cichlids living together! I started to add a little bit of marine salt to my aquarium with my smaller cichlids everyday for the past 2 months and once the salinity level reached 1.016 i decided to add a damsel 3 weeks ago and it is still doing fine and what amazes me is that now I have two red devils, a jack dempsey, and a texes living with a blue damsel! They seem to be thriving and they all have healthy appetites. tell me what you think...
You probably aren't even smart enough to know that almost all saltwater fish are wild caught, so I just told you. I have to agree with everyone else, that is the stupidist thing you could have done to an animal, even stupider than keeping a goldfish in a bowl IMO.

[IceH2O]

Why flame the guy. What if it does work?

Whoever thought of putting fish in a glass tank probably got flamed too.

He has only made that 1 post on the subject, Let him explain his side then flame him.

[dorkfish]

Why flame the guy. What if it does work?

Whoever thought of putting fish in a glass tank probably got flamed too.

He has only made that 1 post on the subject, Let him explain his side then flame him.

He's not the first person to do this. Read the species profile for the blue devil damsel in the Ines fishbook for proof of it. But, regardless if the fish will survive, it WILL NOT THRIVE, and it will if you were to go throuugh with the rather cheap addition of marine salt to a basic 10g tropical starter kit (No more than $75-100 total in most cases), so it is completely wrong and inhumane IMHO.

[sumthin fishy]

WHile I did not really flame in my initial post ( I was asking if there was any scientific process being used) I have a feeling this is merely anothe "playing god" attemt.

[Rbishop]

from another of your posts...

quick question... when you "expert hobbiests" give advice is it coming from the text books, personal experience, or what YOU think is right? Has anyone actually went to school or is going to school to actually study fish and fish behavior. I know when I do give advise which is rare because i want people to learn from their own mistakes which sounds terrible yes, but every single hobbiest has lost some fish when they started out if you say you have never lost a single fish then that is a bold faced lie! Anyway When I give advice it is coming from what my professors at my university are teaching me and from my experiences with fish. I only started to get into the hobby when i was 13 which was 7 years ago. I may not be old but i am wise and i know what i am doing.

This can be found in...

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78567&page=2&pp=15

Sorry...no, take that back..i am not. You just plain do not care what you are doing and writing it off as okay, all in hopes of impressing somebody or for the sake of "learning".
Or would it be to impress the professors?

Sumthin fishy...thanks for passing the baton..

Managuay...tell you what I think...get your head out of your a**. You may be not be old but you are nothing but a dumba**, and definitely do not know what you are doing.

[managuay86]

:laugh: OMG i NEVER thought I would get so much hate mail... ok you No matter how much I try to explain my case no body will listen becuz everybody is to narrowheaded to understand. My cause for this experiment... to see if a freshwater fish and salwaterfish can coexist with each other, nothing more nothing less. So far they are doing great, I also picked a damsel they are probably the only saltwater fish that has almost the same habits and aggression as new world cichlids. And I know the difference between LIVING and THRIVING and I can definitly say they are not just living. I also have a video of my fish and for those who say im "playing god" well Im a full blooded christian but im also open-minded anyway enough of that.. and if i dont have compassion for a living thing... WELL IM ALSO A FISHERMAN AND CATCHING AND KILLING AND EATING FISH IS KINDA A NORMAL THING FOR ME AND MOST OF MY FRENDS. before anyone can say it... NO I WILL NOT JUST EAT MY PET FISH I CANT EAT MY PETS. anyway thank you for your feedback.

p.s. for the few ppl that were open minded on this subject THANK YOU FOR NOT BEING IGNORANT!!!!!!!! ;)

[Ghost_knife]

This "experiment" Lacks anything of a scientific manner. Your blatent disregard for the wellbeing of creatures under your care is astounding. None of the fish listed can tolerate SW BW conditions for very long, even the damsel will not survive even being close to 1.022 Gravity. This is a pathetic attempt to call cruelty to animals an Experiment. If you were studying for a marine-biology class or an Ichtheology course and I were the professor I would Give this project an F, not because of the the idea but for the sheer Disreguard for a living creature.. you do deserve any hatemail you get.

[Jadis]

i think my problem lies in the word "experiment"
fair enough if you want to prove that salt water and fresh can co-exist. but what testing are you doing daily to prove they are thriving, rather than just existing. gut feeling is not scientific. are you taking down daily notes to create some sort of research project?
seriously, what is all this for?

[plah831]

he didn't expect this??? has he been reading the other long, drawn-out threads on AC? They all pretty much go like this. I guess he doesn't do his homework. oh well. I'm sure he's stopped reading this one by now, at least he would if he were smart.

[sumthin fishy]

:laugh: OMG i NEVER thought I would get so much hate mail...
Yes you did, thats why you posted it.


... to see if a freshwater fish and salwaterfish can coexist with each other, nothing more nothing less. Why not see if a human can co-exist in a large tank with a great white shark. You could be the test subject.

So far they are doing great, I highly doubt that(this is assuming you are really doing this and not just posting male bovine feces)


And I know the difference between LIVING and THRIVING and I can definitly say they are not just living. What proof do you have of this?

......well Im a full blooded christian but im also open-minded anyway enough of that.. Mabey I missed the 11th commandment? Thou shall experament with living creatures, torturing them to satisfy your curiosity.

... WELL IM ALSO A FISHERMAN AND CATCHING AND KILLING AND EATING FISH IS KINDA A NORMAL THING FOR ME AND MOST OF MY FRENDS. I fish too. I dont kill my catch slowly over the course of a few days/weeks. There is a difference killing something for food, and doing something that will simply shorten thier life immensley just to say you did it.



THANK YOU FOR NOT BEING IGNORANT!!!!!!!! ;)OMG now that is funny. What ignorance is there in proper fishcare? You failed to answer my questions on what scientific methods you were using, so obviously you eaiter made up this story to get a rise, or YOU are the ignorant one. I highly doubt you are going to tell us when the fish die and you are proven wrong.

[~*LuvMyKribs*~]

This guy is a young kid, who loves to be a sh*t disturber. He loves the attention it draws... and unfortunately he is getting it. But he is only getting this negative attention, thankfully, because most people on here actually love and care for their animals.

Your "experiment" is pathetic. Slowly (over the period of practically years) acclimating a damsel to low salinities is one thing, but to raise the salinity on fish where there is NO salt in thier water is torture. Maybe you should soak yourself in salt water for a few weeks straight and see what it does to YOUR skin.

I have heard of "experiments" slowly lowering the salinity on clownfish (which are damsels) to make them practically freshwater, but I suspect this experiment has failed since I have not heard anything on the matter for a while now. I'm sure you can acclimate the fish to lower salinities since aquatic organisms are extremely adaptable when you think about it, but they would not be able to reproduce.

Your not playing god, no matter how much you'd like to think so. You are playing a dumb*ss.

-Diana

[Sully]

Once again some individuals here think that actively condemning someone else for their behavior in some way is something different than what the individual they disagree with is doing.

Once again it appears certain people think that verbally abusing someone for their practices in some way demonstrates their fish knowledge and expertise. To say nothing of their moral high ground.

Why not discuss something. Make it an intelligent discourse. Much more pleasant--lol.

So how big a tank is that Black Ghost Knife in. If it is a 100 gallon tank the poor guy just does not have enough room to move, grow and develop properly. They grow to about 2' in length. Only takes a few years in an environment conducive to that particular species.

See, it is easy to judge others. Think about it. You do not need obscenity laced tirades or say the vituperous bile found in hate mail is deserved...so much easier to make it through boards when "fact" or opinion (that is steeped in supporting logic, knowledge and experience) is discussed.

The absurdity of the comment that "you stand by" the original post is as ridiculous as the original stream of intolerant, condescending, self serving garbage spewed forth like intellectual and moral vomit

To once again plagerize:

Just three words,

Take your medications.

It is, afterall, just a fish board--roflmao.

[beatle]

I still want to see pictures/video. Really, if you break things down, anyone keeping fish in a tank is "inhumane." They'd all much rather be in a lake/stream or the ocean. I think it's interesting, though not ideal, obviously.

[daniel364]

look, im really inexperienced at this and young too. the piont i am making is that all the people that are saying that he doing wrong are probably right but i dont think it deserves this MUCH hatetred. you have made your pionts and i am sure he's got it but at the end of the day we cant do nothing about it and its a real shame about the fish but at the risk of becoming unpopular isnt their more to life? you have made your pionts and i agree with them but the pionts that are being made are becoming repetative.

theres just nothing anyone can do.

:huh:

[tonytheboss1]

look, im really inexperienced at this and young too. the piont i am making is that all the people that are saying that he doing wrong are probably right but i dont think it deserves this MUCH hatetred. you have made your pionts and i am sure he's got it but at the end of the day we cant do nothing about it and its a real shame about the fish but at the risk of becoming unpopular isnt their more to life? you have made your pionts and i agree with them but the pionts that are being made are becoming repetative.

daniel364 you're probably right. I don't necessarily agree w/ the 'hatred' & 'name calling' but the points being made by several members are valid ones (mine is in another post 'most aggressive cichlid'). Although it might be too late for this guy, hopefully we can discourage the next wantan attempt to disregard the sanctity of life. JMHO

[~*LuvMyKribs*~]

Maybe some of you do not realize the "history" this particular member has... and his overall attitude towards fishkeeping in general. IMO it is poor and I am not at all suprised by this thread.

:rant:

-Diana

[plah831]

Maybe some of you do not realize the "history" this particular member has... and his overall attitude towards fishkeeping in general.
EXACTLY! see his responses in the Most Aggressive Cichlid thread.

[Emg]

Why can't you folks just simply give the guy your opinion on the matter without the tirade ! ? http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/confused/confused0050.gif

:girl:

[Gian krlo]

YOU PEOPLE ARE SO MEAN! i hate when people act like this, instead of insulting him you just have to tell him, im with ya or im not with ya... this is the cause of this world...luvmykribs i didnt know you were like this but im with ya but not at all, cause i think that it is not alright to do this but is his problem so DONT GET MAD ABOUT IT! :mad2:

hope you suceed with your experiment managuay86, it is really interesting :laugh:

[sumthin fishy]

There lies the difference between those of us who care for fish(no matter who's tank they are in) and those of you who feel they are disposable novelties deserving of torture for your own pleasure.

[plah831]

hope you suceed with your experiment managuay86, it is really interesting
It's not interesting because anyone with sense will tell you how it will end. Badly, for all fish involved.

Also, you posted that video of the big cichlids fighting in an overstocked tank that is way too small for all of them. Plus there are small fish in there with huge ones, which is never a good idea.

[Gian krlo]

mmm about the video is true that tank is overstocked n about the experiment i was joking is not interesting cause it involve lifes :duh:

[Emg]

SF.......a person can still express thier disaggreement with a situation without making it a personal attack. No one is going to change anybodies mind about anything by lobbing granades at them anytime they do something others don't like.

That's pretty judgmental and makes the attacker look like a knowitall SOB...not saying that you or anyone here is that...but it sure comes off that way...sorry. :huh:

[managuay86]

ok i repeat for the people who have a little compassion towards my thread thanks and to the rest of you.. you say you dislike this "experiment" because these two fish were not ment to live with each other. ok lets break it down step by step. cichlids can tolerate and in fact live in brackish water as can most other freshwater fish... Damsels can live in a lower salinity environment. Putting cichlids or any other freshwater fish in saltier water will greatly reduce the risk of catching any diseases. Putting marine fish in a lower salinity environment can also greatly reduce the risk of diseases. OK my cichlids have been living in a borderline marine environment for the past months and a half and tell me why they went from dull 1.5 inch cichlids to bright and beautiful 3 inch fish. they have never succum to any parasites after i convertet them. I have had these fish for about 4 months now my frend gave me a texas and unfortunatly it had ich which it transfered to all my other fish. I dont like using medications becuz it isnt natural. So i desided to raise the temp to about 82 and add a little bit of marine salt because it is more affective then just aquarium salt. (I have treated fish with marine salt before and it works a lot fastr than aquarium salt.) well after a week i checked the salinity level and it was at 1.008. which amazed me. they were all healthy and fine, in fact they were a lot healthier than before. I knew cihclids could handle brackish water but not all the way up to .008. so from there on end i decided to add a little more marine salt every day for the next month and here I am now. Adding the damsel was something that struck me after I had the salt level at .016. I have said all I can say and i also have a video of my fish it isnt the best quality but it is enough to see everything. http://s57.photobucket.com/albums/g203/westcoastfishing86/?action=view&current=damsel001.flv

[plah831]

Putting cichlids or any other freshwater fish in saltier water will greatly reduce the risk of catching any diseases. Putting marine fish in a lower salinity environment can also greatly reduce the risk of diseases.
quote me a citation from the primary scientific literature that states that. those two things will reduce stress IN THE SHORT TERM because you are putting them in situations where their surrounding more closely match the salinities of their tissues. however, in the long run, it messes up their natural osmoregulatory tendencies. if you don't know what osmoregulation is, look it up.

i personally worked in a fish physiology lab where my advisor, Dr. Joe Cech, a well-known fish ecophysiologist, studied the histology of osmoregulation. I myself conducted my own study of salinity preference in juvenile Sacramento perch under stress. My colleague, Brian Sardella, studies tilapia (yes, a cichlid) in hypersaline conditions and they exhibit lower growth, fertility, and life spans. In short, they are not thriving!!!!!!!

Look it up: Physiological, biochemical and morphological indicators of osmoregulatory stress in `California' Mozambique tilapia (Oreochromis mossambicus x O. urolepis hornorum) exposed to hypersaline water

Brian A. Sardella1,*, Victoria Matey2, Jill Cooper3, Richard J. Gonzalez3 and Colin J. Brauner1

Journal of Experimental Biology 207, 1399-1413 (2004)

[Mantas]

I'm new to this forum but I just wonder why people are so hostile...From his posts so far the fish seem to be doing well, it's not like he's let them get to the point where the fish are showing ill effects and he's killing them on purpose...he's experimenting out of curiosity which isn't on the same level as torturing his fish for his amusement...he's kept track of the salinity and water quality and visual inspections of the fish to see if are feeding/behaving normally....it's not like he's got these fish barely breathing and shedding skin and he's just attempting to see how long they will live....while I personally wouldn't attempt to do this and I do see valid points from the people who hold the opposite opinions, the personal attacks are a bit much...maybe he's on to something, I'm sure at one point in time people scoffed at the idea that fish could be kept in tanks in the average person's home...and if he's making the whole thing up just to get a reaction, he certainly got what he wanted which I guess alot of people on here are predictable...just a thought...

[managuay86]

i personally worked in a fish physiology lab where my advisor, Dr. Joe Cech, a well-known fish ecophysiologist, studied the histology of osmoregulation. I myself conducted my own study of salinity preference in juvenile Sacramento perch under stress. My colleague, Brian Sardella, studies tilapia (yes, a cichlid) in hypersaline conditions and they exhibit lower growth, fertility, and life spans. In short, they are not thriving!!!!!!! and correct me if im wrong but isnt a tilapia an african cichlid? and a sacramento perch is a type of sunfish/panfish. and also I should be calling you cruel and inhumane because you did the same thing im doing right now... so does it make it ok because you have it published and a big scientific name on it and im a hated SOB because im doing it at home??? if so then all the rest of you guys are hypocrits. IF you really look at it...he is "messing with life" just the same as me... anywayIm sure most of the people that are bashin on me have never even tryied it and only go by word of mouth. PLah is an exception but its still not strong enough proof because it doesnt involve the same fish and/or environment.... thank you. :rolleyes:

[sumthin fishy]

SF.......a person can still express thier disaggreement with a situation without making it a personal attack. No one is going to change anybodies mind about anything by lobbing granades at them anytime they do something others don't like.

That's pretty judgmental and makes the attacker look like a knowitall SOB...not saying that you or anyone here is that...but it sure comes off that way...sorry. :huh:
Not sure how i got singled out in that. I did ask for any scientific procedures/proof on more than one occasion, and that was not provided. Even now that some of his endeavor has been explained I still find it to be wrong. I may have had even a slight bit of respect for it had he used 20 tanks with controll groups (tanks with fish in thier natural conditions), test groups, and backup tanks for moving the fish to at the first sign of a problem. Possbliy even yet more tanks to find the effects of reaclimating them to thier proper water conditions. It appears he may have done some research but I highly doubt he has the capacity to do anything good with his findings. When the fish die, do you have the facilities to conduct autopsies? Will you be able to test the salinity of the fishs' tissues? (here I go again asking questions that will likely not be answered, and ill prbably going to get ragged on for it again...aor mabey its what comes next that will **** y'all off)

I got a puppy a few months ago and put it in my hot tub. Its been there this whole time and it's still alive so it must be thriving! See i figure dogs swim sometimes and wanted to see if they could swim thier whole lives. The really neat thing is that the food floats so I can just dump it in there and the filter takes out any leftovers!

[plah831]

i wasn't going to justify this dude with a response, but... if you can't figure out the difference between what i do and what you're doing, maybe you do need it spelled out.

my lab gets paid by state funds to develop better guidelines for conservation. i, in fact, was a consultant on a project aimed at developing more effective fish protection at coastal power plants funded by the California Energy Commission. what my colleagues and i do is designed to increase knowledge, for the greater good of fishes. we are on the cutting edge of understanding how they function. we pass that information on to the public and private persons, in the effort to improve the way they interact with and care for fishes. i'm on this forum because i can give people valuable, helpful information.

this past year, i actually came to the realization that i am, in fact, not comfortable with experimenting on animals and have decided not to pursue a Ph.D., or work in research once i get my degree. for a discussion on that http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78926

[Ghost_knife]

In your "video" you notice the one pink color fish? See the red under the gill plate? Thats not normally that red. thats a sign that your fish can hardly breathe.

[Emg]

Not sure how i got singled out in that.

I was responding to this post SF.....not really singling you out persay, just used this post to make a point:


There lies the difference between those of us who care for fish(no matter who's tank they are in) and those of you who feel they are disposable novelties deserving of torture for your own pleasure.

[managuay86]

In your "video" you notice the one pink color fish? See the red under the gill plate? Thats not normally that red. thats a sign that your fish can hardly breathe.

ok well how familiar are you with cichlids??? that "pink colored" fish is a red devil and most young devils have near transparent gill plates and the gills are very visible they as they mature the gill plates become thicker and less visible. Also if it could hardly breathe it would not have lasted this long it would have died the first week plus it would not be eating and it would be up at the surface gasping for air..... next time think before you speak it will make you sound less ignorant. :joke:

all of the haters are saying that my fish are unhealthy and are gonna die soon. but so far all of you have not given proof that they are in such terrible condition. they are growing and doing great.... so CHECK AND MATE! :dance:

P.S. HERE ARE SOME PICTURES OF THEM... the tank looks a lil icky cuz i havnt algae scraped yet. you look at how healthy these fish are and then tell me that they are dying. (FYI damsels turn a dark purple when they are stressed.) The other smaller red devil and the texas are the shy ones so they were hiding through all the snap shots.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g203/westcoastfishing86/damselpix001.jpg http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g203/westcoastfishing86/damselpix002.jpg http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g203/westcoastfishing86/damselpix003.jpg http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g203/westcoastfishing86/damselpix004.jpg http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g203/westcoastfishing86/damselpix005.jpg http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g203/westcoastfishing86/damselpix006.jpg http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g203/westcoastfishing86/damselpix007.jpg

[Ghost_knife]

I've worked with all types of fish long enough to know when Someone is suffering.

[beatle]

Thanks for the pics and the video. The damsel sure seems lively, but the red devil didn't seem all that interested in eating. Is he generally lethargic?

[sumthin fishy]

all of the haters are saying that my fish are unhealthy and are gonna die soon. but so far all of you have not given proof that they are in such terrible condition. they are growing and doing great.... so CHECK AND MATE! :dance:


Sadly, I dont think they are going to die soon, they will die premature deaths over the course of time, but thats only after a fairly long period of suffereing :( When are you going to answer some of my previous questions?

[dorkfish]

Anyone else notice how the red devil apears to be breathing heavily? Northstar only pinted out the redness of the gill areas.

If anybody wants, I can setup that basic 10g SW tank I talked about in my earlier post in this thread (not right away though, I need a month to empty one of my 10g FW's into a bigger tank), stock it with a blue devil damsel and any extra coral frags if I ever have any, and have a "contest" to see who's fish lives longer, just to prove his fish isn't thriving. And, I've been wanting a damsel tank anyway.

[managuay86]

Thanks for the pics and the video. The damsel sure seems lively, but the red devil didn't seem all that interested in eating. Is he generally lethargic?


your welcome no he ate earlier and he just wasnt all that interested in eating, the damsel ate also but saltwater fish just generally eat more I am going to post another video of them eating tomorrow ok..


Controversey for sure. I wonder if you realise you are experimenting with a LIVING CREATURE?!
Have you even done the research to find out how or why there are fish that live in saltwater or freshwater and thier differences? Do you plan on publishing your findings? Would you have even cared (and not just the ding to your walet) if they all died? Do you have a theory? A controll? Are you keeping record of any and all variables? Are you doing this with a large number of tanks, compairing results, incase this is a freak accident and it will never ever work with another tank of the same conditions/inhabitants?

i have done research on why saltwater and freshwater fish are seperated yes it involves their biology. salwater fish are in a saltier environment so liquids get drained from their body a lot quicker therfor saltwater fish generally drink a lot of water just to keep the right amount of liquids in their body they also eat more. Freshwater fish live in a very low salinity environment and their body naturally absorbs a lot of water, so generally the freshwater fish urinate often just to equal out the liquids in their body. as a matter of fact yes I do plan to do something with my findings but only after at least a year or more has passes and all the fish are healthy and growing. I dont have a theory because a theory would involve a series of experiments that have not been disproven but I do have a hypothesis and it is: If I convert a freshwater environment to a brackish environment slowly over a period of time with freshwater fish already in it, that has enough salinity for the saltwater fish, then I could have a saltwater fish and freshwater fish coexist. Yes I am doing this with a number of tanks, at work my manager has agreed to let me do this with a jack dempsy, a black molly, a plecostumus, and Channel Catfish. So far the only fish that experienced any problems was the plecostumus which was reaclimated back into fresh water which is doing great now. ANd if I care or not well for wat its worth yes I do.. If anything should happen My work is a five minute drive and All the necessory equipment are there to revive the fish. ANy other quistions you want me to answer?

[managuay86]

also I forgot to mention... all the ppl that are saying that my fish are suffering and dying, are you guys speaking from experience and be honest, if no experience is inquired with all these statements then you have no sayso..

[~*LuvMyKribs*~]

I personally see myself as a scientific mind, but not when it comes to testing on animals. You are using living creatures to test a "hypothesis" of yours, and you seem so f---in set on them "doing well" that your ignorning the most likely scenario- thier death. I cannot stand, and have NO tolerance for, people who test products on animals. In my mind, this is the exact same thing. Whether in the name of science or not... I do not agree with it. I think the human race is doing all they can right now to wipe all creatures but themselves off this planet, and any "science" that is going to help aid in that process is unacceptable.

So what if your experiment suceeds? What if you somehow prove that what took nature and evolution millions of years only is going to take you 1.5 months? Are you saving any lives in the long run? Are you going to better our planet and the environment? NO. You are going to make it much easier for half-wit hobbyests to kill a bunch of fish.

:mad2:

-Diana

[Ghost_knife]

also I forgot to mention... all the ppl that are saying that my fish are suffering and dying, are you guys speaking from experience and be honest, if no experience is inquired with all these statements then you have no sayso..
If you've ever seen a loved fish die you would recognize the signs, Heavy breating is the first step, Lethergy followed by decreased appitite, weight loss, death. your red devil is on the first few steps. who knows how the dempsey is fairing or any of the other inhabitants