AC 500 killing my fish left and right

[rdelbalso]

I just started a 55 gal tank with an ac500 filter and have had some significant problems with it killing my fish. At first I thought my fish were jumping out of the tank, then I saw a white cloud in the filter box and a pearl danio stuck in the intake. I realized they were too small for the filter so I returned them and bought giant danios instead thinking they would be big enough to avoid the perils of the filter. I turned on the light this morning to be horrified that one of my giant danios had been killed by being sucked to the filter intake. Is this normal with an AC500 or is something seriously wrong? How can I stop this from happening? I was planning on moving my angels to this tank after cycling and now I am not going to risk it, but then what can I do with this tank?
Please help!!

[Panic]

Two suggestions...First the obvious, turn down the flow on the AC500 to the lowest possible. Second, put a sponge on the intake to the AC500, this will also reduce flow plus give the fishies more of a fighting chance at escaping the filter.

[thom336]

i would get in contact with the manufactorers of this filter and explain your problems to them. they will probably be more than happy to help, and will almost certainly have suggestions for you as they would have probably have heard of this happening before if it is a general thing.

[valerie]

your fish shouldn't be getign stuck to the intake. They should be able to out swim the current if they are healthy. I would be suspicious that your fish might be sick, since you jsut got them. And are weakened so they can get away from teh flow.

I have An AC 500 with cardinals and they swim by it all the time without gettign stuck.

[Ronne]

The tank isn't cycled yet? I would bet that the the fish are dying first and then being sucked up by the filter. What are your water parameters? What other fish are in the tank?

[OrionGirl]

I agree with valerie. The only time I've ever seen a fish sucked up to the intake was when the fish was either still fry sized, or sickly. Healthy fish can avoid the intake easily.

[thom336]

how did i miss those points? i must be getting worse at this skim-reading of mine...

[rdelbalso]

Thanks for the replies. I just emailed the manufacturer and hopefully they will respond soon. The fish were put in the tank yesterday afternoon. They actually seem very healthy. Currently its just 6 er 5 giant danios. Actually my first email was not entirely accurate. I looked at the tank this morning with 6 healthy fish and an hour later one was dead. This is my third tank and I honestly think it is not the fish and there is something wrong with the filter. It is sucking way harder than it should. I have it turned to the lowest setting and have virtually no change in pressure. I hope to hear from the manufacturer soon.
Thanks

[thom336]

out of interest how long has your tank been cycling and what are you water test results?

[rdelbalso]

Its been cycling since march 19. I currently read pH=7.0, Ammonia=0ppm, nitrite=0ppm, temp=80F. 55gal tank

[Ledslnger]

I would bet on the fish being sick. Fish cannot be sucked in unless you are talking about a BIG powerhead or something and little fish. Even then, the fish are smart enough to stay out of the strong current IMO.

[NJ Devils Fan]

Well, the tank isn't cycled yet, having only been a few days. There might be traces of ammonia that you just don't see on your test that, having been combined with the stress of the fish being in a new envioument, killed them.

[OrionGirl]

Just an off hand thought, but did you treat the water for chloramines? Chlorine would have dissapated by now, but chloramines would still be in the water, and killing fish off easily.

[rdelbalso]

I use prime every time I add water to the tanks, but i think for most of the water in the fresh tank I didn't use it because I put the water in the tank 4 or 5 days before I added the fish. I have been told many times instead of treating water before adding to your tank you can just let it sit for a day. I figured this is essentially what I was doing for 4 days. Is this wrong? Maybe that could explain it.

[OrionGirl]

If you have only chlorine, yes, sitting out overnight will be fine. If your water contains chloramines, they won't gas off. Important to check with your utility to make sure which treatment is appropriate. Many areas are changing over from chlorine treatment to chloramines, since the chloramines are effective for a longer period of time.

[rdelbalso]

Ok. the hagen rep just emailed me the following response:

The Aqua Clear 500 is three times the size you need for your aquarium. This may be why you are experiencing excessive flow from the output. This may also be the reason fish are getting stuck to the input. If the motor is vibrating, I suggest you return it to the retailer as it is most likely defective. It should run completely silent. I suggest you exchange it for a smaller unit, like the Aqua Clear 300 which is suitable for aquariums up to 100 gallons, or the 200 for aquariums up to 50 gallons. There is also a flow control on these filters which can be used to reduce the flow. When you bring the filter back to the store, I also suggest you bring a water sample to have it tested. If there are any problems with the water quality, this may be causing the fish to become weak, which will explain why they are getting sucked into the filter as well.


Do people agree that the AC500 is way too big for the tank? I didn't buy it from a store, but it came with the tank used. I have read that many people use this size on a 55 gal.

[OrionGirl]

I don't think it's that oversized. I plan on running 300's on my 55's, but they will be lightly stocked. I would be comfortable running a 500 on a 55, and up to about a 90 (totally understocked). Bigger than that, and I won't run just one filter. If there's serious noise, it might be a problem, but it could just be the impeller chamber needs cleaning.

Heck, I've run an AC 300 on 10 - 20 gallon tanks for a long time, and never had any problems with fish getting sucked up.

[rdelbalso]

Thanks OrionGirl for your responses. I didn't think it was too big. I did try to clean the implellar housing already and it didn't make any difference, I might try that again.

[OrionGirl]

Check the impeller to make sure it hasn't chipped. The littlest chip can cause some serious noise issues, but they are easily and cheaply replaced.

If you are still uncomfortable with the amount of suction, get an extra sponge block, cut a hole in the small end, and shove the intake into the whole. It will require cleaning, but this will prevent fish from getting stuck on it. I've done this in aquariums where I had small fry I didn't want trying to hide in the intake tube (silly killi fish!).

[rdelbalso]

Thanks, I will check that. If I still have problems I will replace it and maybe use your sponge idea. I just checked my city water report and we only have chlorine in there currently. They are going to switch to Chloramine in December.

[OrionGirl]

;) At least you'll have a heads up on the switch over to chloramines now! Some water treatments won't handle chloramines. I know that Amquel is effective, so you may want to read up on Prime and see if it is as well.

[Tyler718]

Originally posted by NJ Devils Fan
Well, the tank isn't cycled yet, having only been a few days. There might be traces of ammonia that you just don't see on your test that, having been combined with the stress of the fish being in a new envioument, killed them.

I'm going to have to agree with NJ Devil Fan. I think there are some other issues happening. I have run an AC500 on a 55 for a long time.

[rdelbalso]

It looks like I am not the first person to have troubles with this filter. I just looked in the box of stuff that was included when I bought the tank and filter from someone. I was looking for a sponge to put over the intake and I found one already made with the filter hole in it. The guy I bought the filter from evidently had the same problem.

[cpr4cpu]

I bought a used filter from a guy that thought you could use petroleum based products as a lubricant for the impeller. See if you notice a slight haze on the glass near the waterline or in bad cases a film on the surface (if you can shut down all the water current and see if an oily film forms in a day). I have also seen powerheads that have had the O rings treated with petroleum jelly (why I have NO idea!).

It'll kill a fish really quickly, with little or no indication through the normal water analysis ... and I speak from experience because I lost every single fish in my barb tank, replaced all the water and still had contamination from what soaked into the rocks and wood so my great filter deal turned into quite a nightmare.

[NJ Devils Fan]

Wow, that customer service rep is completely wrong. I can't believe the things that they say.

[rdelbalso]

yeah, they probably know nothing about fish, just that their product is rated for something. i was noticing today that some of my danios seem to be flashing a little on the rocks. they do it more in the open water like they are break dancing or something, but i am guessing that's a bad sign. ahhhh. this tank was supposed to be a good deal for me. its a nightmare.

[Cirean]

I run two AC500 in my 150 gallon tank and what has happened to me couple of times is the fish will swim up stream through the out flow and on to the filter pad and eventually over down by the propeller. I had one fish (albino shark) no matter what I did he would just go right back there after I put him back in the tank. I was just curious is this how you found youre fish or are you finding them just stuck on the intake tub?

[rdelbalso]

just stuck on the intake tube or in the section above the motor.

[BigFishDude]

Originally posted by rdelbalso
yeah, they probably know nothing about fish, just that their product is rated for something. i was noticing today that some of my danios seem to be flashing a little on the rocks. they do it more in the open water like they are break dancing or something, but i am guessing that's a bad sign. ahhhh. this tank was supposed to be a good deal for me. its a nightmare.

The flashing is not good. Its most likely a skin irritation or disease of some sorts, maybe someone can elaborate more? I think you might have solved your problem. :)

[JP457]

I would have to say that the fish just died and got sucked in. I once ran a 100gph filter on a five gallon tank while its filter was broken w/ no problems.

[superstein61]

Originally posted by NJ Devils Fan
Wow, that customer service rep is completely wrong. I can't believe the things that they say.

Why is that NJ - Just because they didn't agree with significantly overfiltering their tank like, ummmmm, wellll, you prefer :D - LOL

[xtremeyolks]

I run 2 ac500's on my 55 gallon without a problem. Crystal clear water:D

[NJ Devils Fan]

They were wrong because they didn't know how stocked the tank was. I can have an Emperor 400 on a twenty gallon tank and it doesn't mean it's too much because the tank could be very overstocked.

[thom336]

can i just step in to defend hagen here as they are one of the best damned companies i know.

[NJ Devils Fan]

Well, they make good products but I guess their service reps are lacking info perhaps.

[superstein61]

Hey NJ, perhaps they didn't know the tank was very overstocked because the person who emailed them asling the question never told them that.

You can't assume the customer service folks are bad unless you know the full story.

Plus, it was not like this customer service person was trying to make more $ for hagen - they actually said that the filter was too big, take it back and exchange it for a smaller (and thereby cheaper) one

[NJ Devils Fan]

Well, it's their job to ask. I didn't say he was just trying to get money for hagen, I'm saying that the customer service people shouldask more questions before just giving a diagnosis.

[thom336]

i actually suggested contacting hagen because on numerous occasions i have heard of them replacing the whole filter, and while doing so giving the suggestion of keeping the media for the bacteria - so they do know what they are doing.

[superstein61]

Originally posted by NJ Devils Fan
Well, it's their job to ask. I didn't say he was just trying to get money for hagen, I'm saying that the customer service people shouldask more questions before just giving a diagnosis.

No, especially when you are dealing with a communication such as email, its the customer's responsibility to provide all the facts up front, especially if they are doing anything out of the ordinary - such as overstocking the tank

[thom336]

i agree with superstein, and this is the reason i would suggest phoning the company, as it wuold allow for all the facts that are required to be got across.

[NJ Devils Fan]

Yea, that what I thought at first, that he talked on the phone, not e-mail, so that's why I said that they should have asked.

[Sharyl C]

I noticed when you posted your water test results your temp is 80^F. This seems pretty high and mey be stressing your fish out. Danio are a high metabolism fish - they burn/consume a lot of oxygen and warmer water does not hold as much O2.

It also sounds like this has contributed to a parasite infestation as well - with regards to the flashing behavior you observed.

I agree with theory that the fish are getting weak or sick before getting stuck to the filter.