Mafia 100-The Witches Return-The Game

[AC] xx_Nemesis_xx;2753476 said:

And Rickets - people do make mistakes. You had a pop at Tree based on one you made yourself.

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Yes I did. I nearly got burned for that too, if you remember.

I recognized who the player was who used the Tree alias very early in the game. They really made no effort to hide who they are. Within their posts, they also made sure I could see that they knew my identity too in a subtle way.

We became close friends a very long time ago.... long before most of our current mafia players started playing this game. That player and I have a long history going back and forth at each other in just about every game we've played regardless of which side either of us were on.

In this game, I got a very late start and had to work hard to catch up... I misinterpreted the rules and roles... I jumped to some wrong conclusions. I was also way too cautious at first of Tree's plan to turn Wingnut from scum to townie. When that idea was presented, I balked and immediately suspected Tree was scum and had cooked up some devious plan to screw us up. I did not feel I was up to speed on who had been saying what which left me wondering if there was some nasty little double-cross involved with it that I hadn't figured out yet. I get this way in most games I play, actually.... Why? Because I've been fooled by Tree and other players like Tree too many times in the past.

Nonetheless, nothing about that has anything to do with your alignment in this game or mine.

[AC] xx_Nemesis_xx;2753477 said:

OK accepting that Wing Nut can't say whether I have been turned after they were turned because they presumably wouldn't know, they can and should do the same as they have done for Rickets, and confirm that I was not in the scum den with them.

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I would appreciate it very much if you could describe what kind of scenario may exist where you could have been turned?

You might also tell us why (for the second time already) you want the town to think there are more turns in this game than there really are.

It appears you are deliberately trying to confuse everyone.

I'll just respond to Rickets posts. There is building a case, and then there is this effort, which to my eyes lacks any objectivity, but I leave it up to the town.

[AC] RICKETS;2753563 said:

This isn't where I was going to start when I got back , but the comments Nem made can't be ignored either.



I believe it is safe to assume the witches anticipated Wingnut's turn from teammate to enemy. They also had adequate time before the turn happened to conspire about it. Surely long enough for them to work out a plan of some kind.

Wingnut has repeatedly demonstrated their loyalty still remains with the witch team. Wing has been as unhelpful as they can possibly be. This is a good indication that some kind of agreement or promise was exchanged between the witches before Wingnut was turned.

With this in mind, I do not expect Wingnut intends to give us a yea or nea for every possible suspect we drag before them.

For that matter, when I pestered Wingnut to choose a name for me, Wing jumped at the chance to volunteer to be turned back themself. Wing wanted very much to return to their scumden. I kept after them trying every argument I could think of. Finally, Wingnut agreed and gave me a name: BadHaggis.

Gee thanks, Wingnut.... you named the very witch we were going to burn anyway.

How helpful was that, really?

Look at it this way, Nemesis. Let's say you ARE a witch and you were, in fact, in the scumden with Wingnut. The way you phrased this question could be seen as asking it but also prompting Wingnut not to answer it truthfully at the same time. You didn't ask point blank. You didn't ask a simple yes or no and leave it at that. You included a clear hint with the question to show Wing how you and the witches want them answer you.

"The answer if given will be no." ........ nudge, nudge, wink, wink.

Dude, how gullible do you think we are?

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It's as simple as this. Wing Nut said that you were not in the scum den with them. All I'm asking is that Wing Nut answers the same question in respect of myself, that's all, and that would be fair and consistent. I wasn't and therefore if the question is answered honestly, that will be confirmed. It would be completely unfair to the town and to myself if Wing Nut does not give an answer.

[AC] RICKETS;2753566 said:

The only player I know who's been turned is Wingnut. I can also say to my knowledge there are no other spells or turns in this game that are unaccounted for. No one else but me received the random spell from Lady G and I didn't use it.

And yes, I'm not completely stupid, Nem. I realize no one else can be sure what to believe about that because there's no possible corroboration. I knew that would be the case before I said anything about it. And I don't care if I get burned for it; it was still the best way to proceed.

Now, please explain how I could accuse you or anyone else of being turned? Or, for that matter, why I would?

At first glance your question seems blunt and to the point. I do recognize, however, it was intended to either provoke me, mock me, or cast further doubt on me.

In future games, I recommend you take a much less manipulative approach to someone questioning your statements, votes, or behavior if you want the town to believe you are not scum.

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I asked a straight question, do you say I am original scum or that I was turned. Simple answer on your part would do fine. You seem to be saying that you know I wasn't turned and that therefore I was original scum. That's fine. I'm perfectly happy for anyone to review my posts, throughout the game, and come to their own view. I'm happy that on any fair reading, I've been working for the town.

[AC] RICKETS;2753568 said:

Sigh.....

Okay Nem. You are right this was an error on your part. A big one. You're the one who told me to go look for myself and I did that. That's how I discovered you consistently post statements praising your own efforts and exaggerating your analytical ability to "predict" or identify scum and to find links between scum... which eventually you either retract or abandon when it comes time to vote who gets burned. Personally, that strikes me as scummy behavior. I can't imagine why you'd call so much attention to this very weak and suspicious aspect of your game.

I was already onto you for bouncing around so much as it was happening, posted as much, and that put you on my suspect list. The last thing you should have done was invite me to take an even closer look now that we know more about the witch team.

Further, I fail to see what good this correction even serves from your standpoint. Your Wizard vote was the vote you meant to reference? Instead of your Narwhal vote?

Really?????

Here is your Wizard vote from Night 2:

Wizard-(9)-Hammerhead, Tree, Star, IQ, Narwhal, Scoop, Wing, Fire, Nem

Here is your Narwhal vote from Night 3:

Nar-(10)-Cnote, Star, Tree, Hammer,Hammer, Fire, Doom, Rickets, IQ, Nem

Your vote was not instrumental in burning either Wizard or Narwhal.... you were dead last to vote both witches both times. You did not "guarantee" the vote either time.

Why the heck you brag at all about your voting record on either of those nights is beyond me.

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I don't brag about it - I defended it when it was questioned. Defending it was perfectly fair.

[AC] RICKETS;2753570 said:

Do you even realize you've just called more attention to the connection you "theorized" may exist between Wingnut and BadHaggis as scummates together? That was good work if you're innocent. It was unavoidably obvious if you were scummates with both of them at the time.

Now tell me this: How on earth does it help your "defense" after being called out as possible scum for you to show us how well you connected Wingnut and BadHaggis together......... when you also failed to follow through on your own case against BadHaggis after it was apparent he was the next witch we would go after?

Here is your BadHaggis vote from Night 4:

Bad Haggis-(6)-Rickets,Wing, C-note, Fire, Scoop, Nem

Yet again, you were dead last to vote out a witch. That makes it 3 nights in a row.

Your voting record speaks for itself and it is anything but pro-town. No wonder the witches are losing so badly with you on their team.

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I've already responded to this kind of allegation. You havn't reprised the posts around the Bad Haggis voting fairly at all.

[AC] RICKETS;2753571 said:

Yes I did. I nearly got burned for that too, if you remember.

I recognized who the player was who used the Tree alias very early in the game. They really made no effort to hide who they are. Within their posts, they also made sure I could see that they knew my identity too in a subtle way.

We became close friends a very long time ago.... long before most of our current mafia players started playing this game. That player and I have a long history going back and forth at each other in just about every game we've played regardless of which side either of us were on.

In this game, I got a very late start and had to work hard to catch up... I misinterpreted the rules and roles... I jumped to some wrong conclusions. I was also way too cautious at first of Tree's plan to turn Wingnut from scum to townie. When that idea was presented, I balked and immediately suspected Tree was scum and had cooked up some devious plan to screw us up. I did not feel I was up to speed on who had been saying what which left me wondering if there was some nasty little double-cross involved with it that I hadn't figured out yet. I get this way in most games I play, actually.... Why? Because I've been fooled by Tree and other players like Tree too many times in the past.

Nonetheless, nothing about that has anything to do with your alignment in this game or mine.

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I agree that it didn't, and wonder therefore why you would spend so much effort discussing it. I didn't use it to cast any allegations your way at all.

[AC] RICKETS;2753574 said:

I would appreciate it very much if you could describe what kind of scenario may exist where you could have been turned?

You might also tell us why (for the second time already) you want the town to think there are more turns in this game than there really are.

It appears you are deliberately trying to confuse everyone.

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No, No I'm not.

The potential for a turn has been put out there and discussed before I mentioned it. Again you're not quoting posts fairly or in context. Wing Nut themselves put out the possibility of you being turned. There has been discussion of potential turns. You're taking me out of context, again.

Ok, so I from I can gather we're probably just looking for one witch, assuming that Rickets did NOT use their extra spell and that was in fact the random event. Am I correct?

I have to vote now but I'm not ready to vote as I have had absolutely no time today to reread and have resorted to skimming again (which is why I'm not sure about the numbers). I'm not going to bore anyone with excuses unless they absolutely want them, but I'm pretty sure it would give my real identity away anyways.

I vote to burn Nem at the stake

I originally didn't put them in the suspect pool based on the Wiz vote being pretty much a nail in the coffin but to be honest that doesn't really hold much weight right now. I was the one leaning IQ innocent based on the timing of their vote so really anything is possible at this point. Going over Ricket's latest case, being the last vote on scum 3 times is darn weird at the very least. I'm not exactly pleased with the vote...would much rather be able to go over things myself...but I need a vote in and don't think I'll get back before nightfall tonight.

I see Fire's name being thrown out there, at least closer to after nightfall from what I remember. I'm not sure I would buy in to her jumping on Wiz THAT early, as in D1.

Scoop is iffy for me. I haven't gone over enough of their recent posts to really make up my mind. Same with Cnote.

At this point I am hesitant to trust Rickets about the random event, but they are making the most sense right now in terms of case building. I could have easily missed something though that points to it being more/less truthful. I hope I'm putting my eggs in the right basket.

I still have Star leaning innocent. I don't question that Wing was turned town.

This is some of the issues Rickets has brought up, but put fairly.

I made this post about 6 hours or slightly less before Nightfall. Yes it was late on BH. I've previously shown that I was connecting BH to being scum. I also give my reason for going for the vote on BH. There was a debate going on about whether Rickets should use the turn they claimed to have on BH.

I also say clearly I won't be around for nightfall and that I'm happy with my vote.

[AC] xx_Nemesis_xx;2752934 said:

OK this to me means, whether or not Rickets is playing a scum trick or not, Wing has, very fairly, identified BH as scum.

The question then becomes, do we believe Rickets when they say they hold a turn spell ?

I said earlier that I thought the dialogue had the ring of truth to it.

However, now I am very unsure that we should trust it. Rickets was right up there in my suspects and I have to ask myself why should this change that, in other words, why do I suddenly trust someone who I have viewed with suspicion until now ?

I have no reason to trust Rickets at all. I have in front of my a confirmed witch. I therefore vote to burn Bad Haggis.

As regards Rickets the possibilities are :-

1. They are pro-town and have the spell they describe. On the basis that BH is being lynched and they have no better suspect, they don't cast the spell. Town does not suffer.
2. They do not have the spell they describe. That would make them scum. BH being lynched remains of benefit to the town. We will have to look very carefully at Rickets posting to see if it amounts to an effort to mislead/lie to the town.

My final thought is that there apparently is in fact a random event. I'm a little slow to accept that the random event is another turn spell, like exactly the one the warlock was given. I think there would be some more creativity. I'd be inclined to go with burning the known witch, BH, tonight and see if something turns up during the rest of today or tomorrow that gives more insight to the random event. I mean, if the random event is clearly something other than Ricket's spell-claim, we burn them immediately.

I won't be around for nightfall. Happy with my vote.

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OK so these next posts are in the aftermath of the last Nightfall. Firedancer and Rickets are accusing each other definitively of being scum.

FireDancer7905 said:

I don't believe Ricketts had a spell.

I vote to burn Ricketts at the stake.[\b]

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[AC] RICKETS;2753085 said:

Nice try, Fire. How come your formatting went weird like that? You had that post ready to send before the ''game on,'' didn't you?

That means you knew there were 6 witches.

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[AC] RICKETS;2753086 said:

Yes or no, Wingnut. Did we start this fricken game with 6 witches?

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FireDancer7905 said:

Lol, you should just concede.

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FireDancer7905 said:

Ooooh, that's slick! Are you the last one? That would explain your crazy. We mustve played together before, because I used to be much easier to ruffle.

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[AC] RICKETS;2753098 said:

You slipped up, Fire. Plain and simple.

We must have played together before? What's THAT got to do with how many witches are in this game?

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[AC] RICKETS;2753099 said:

You serious? Wiz, Wingnut, Narwhal, BadHaggis, and HI IQ.

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[AC] RICKETS;2753101 said:

I caught you in a slip, Fire. After coasting along this far you screwed up and can't explain it away. It's your own remarks.. your own posts.

Trying to blame your mistake on me? Oh sorry.. am I being hard on you? lol... that's a riot.

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Star-crossed comes in. Here, I'm showing that it wasn't me who started up the talk on there possibly being turns to 'confuse the town' the way Rickets has portrayed it. Star says the random event turned Rickets. The comment on Rickets becoming more active recently is by the way fair and accurate.

[AC] Star-Crossed;2753102 said:

Well played Rickets. I think the random event turned you scum. That was a great plan, coming out with this supposed spell which you could use to turn someone. Get everyone to agree that Haggis needs to be turned, say you've used it on him, and suddenly both Haggis and you are presumed townies. You transitioned quite well from townie to scum. Really, the only change in your play was becoming more active, which you could explain by having this great dilemma about who to use the spell on. What a pro-town move to have Wing, a known innocent who knows all the scum, declare who should be turned.


Why don't you go ahead and concede then?


I vote to burn Rickets and rid this town of evil once and for all.

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Here I'm showing that Wing Nuts was asked outright if Star was in the scum den with them. Again, all I'm asking is that the same approach be taken to this question as regards myself.

[AC] Star-Crossed;2753157 said:

Wing, was Rickets in the scum den with you?

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[AC] Star-Crossed;2753160 said:

Or maybe a better question, is there anyone who was in the scum den with you that is still in the game? You don't need to name names.

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Wing Nut answers 'yes' as regards whether anyone in the scum den with them is still in the game :-

[AC] wing nut;2753232 said:

Yes

I am playing the best I can for the town. If I just gave you all the names of the witches the game may as well ended when I was turned. Why bother going on if you know who to vote for?

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Rickets insists that Wing Nut provide the answer to the question on Rickets. They say that not to do so would mislead the town and protect scum.

I'll say it again. I'm entitled to have the question answered if Rickets was entitled to have the question answer. Not to answer would mislead the town and protect scum. Wing Nut - please respond.

[AC] RICKETS;2753236 said:

Answer both questions, Wingnut. If you do not you are misleading the town and protecting scum.



Tell them.

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Wing Nut gives the answer. Its also notable again that this talk of the random event being a possible turn was not started by me 'to confuse the town'.

[AC] wing nut;2753345 said:

No you weren't a witch to start the game,but that doesn't mean the random event didn't turn you to witch. I can't see the random event being left in the hands of a person that has the choice to use it or not. How is that considered random?

You even admitted that you thought about not telling the town about it. I could see the plan laid out by Star happening. It would clear 2 of you and knowing I won't give out names make it easier for you and BH to last long enough to get the towns numbers down.

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This post from Doomsday is also highlighted to show that potential turns are on their mind as well.

[AC] Doomsday998;2753372 said:

I apologize for not posting until now. I was under the impression that a hotel would have FREE internet, but apparently everything has a fee to it nowadays.

Either way I currently am busy trying to reclaim my what little I have left weekend and get ready for tomorrow.

I skimmed a bit and really all I can tell right now is that there are more possible turns now than I would like to even consider. I have no idea where to go from here.

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That's more or less it really, in terms of my response to Rickets.

Doomsday, please take a few minutes and read my last couple of posts if you're not going to back before Nightfall. Rickets is wrong.

Please also do check back at some point. If there is any fairness in this game, Wing Nut will answer the question about me being in the scum den with them, as they did for Rickets.

[AC] Doomsday998;2753589 said:

Ok, so I from I can gather we're probably just looking for one witch, assuming that Rickets did NOT use their extra spell and that was in fact the random event. Am I correct?

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On those assumptions, yes, you're looking for one witch, and if its me then you have to be of the belief that I was a witch from the start. That doesn't make sense and given time, presuming Wing Nut gives me the basis fairness of answering the question as to whether I was in the scum den with them, that will be proven.

One last post before I HAVE to go...

[AC] xx_Nemesis_xx;2753592 said:

Doomsday, please take a few minutes and read my last couple of posts if you're not going to back before Nightfall. Rickets is wrong.

Please also do check back at some point. If there is any fairness in this game, Wing Nut will answer the question about me being in the scum den with them, as they did for Rickets.

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I'm not sure I can really look at what you've said without going all the way back to take posts you've quoted into context.

If wing nut goes by those standards then we might as well all ask. If they play truthfully, and they are all "No" then we know there was a turn. If there is a "yes" or in the more likely event that someone absolutely refuses to ask, then it's game over. Of course this would all depend on whether wing can continue to answer (I've not kept up with LG's rulings) or is even willing and able to show up before nightfall.

[AC] Doomsday998;2753594 said:

One last post before I HAVE to go...



I'm not sure I can really look at what you've said without going all the way back to take posts you've quoted into context.

If wing nut goes by those standards then we might as well all ask. If they play truthfully, and they are all "No" then we know there was a turn. If there is a "yes" or in the more likely event that someone absolutely refuses to ask, then it's game over. Of course this would all depend on whether wing can continue to answer (I've not kept up with LG's rulings) or is even willing and able to show up before nightfall.

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I take that point and I'm not trying to take the fun out of the game, but, if I'm being put up as a witch, I'm only asking for the same response as was already given. There is absolutely nothing stopping Wing Nut from treating me as they treated Rickets earlier in the game. That's just fair.

The fact that the warlock had the potential to turn a witch innocent is not of my making. I'm only asking for consistency.

[AC] Doomsday998;2753594 said:

If they play truthfully, and they are all "No" then we know there was a turn. If there is a "yes" or in the more likely event that someone absolutely refuses to ask, then it's game over. Of course this would all depend on whether wing can continue to answer (I've not kept up with LG's rulings) or is even willing and able to show up before nightfall.

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Just to note, Wing Nut has already said that somebody is still playing who is the scum den with them. Rickets case against me is based on my being originally a witch.

Doomsday, I'm not refusing to ask. I'm insisting on the question being answered. On your own logic that should make you at least pause.