Air Force Seeks Bush's Approval for Space Weapons Programs

[nursie]

I've always found it interesting, if paradoxical, how strongly American people believe in the strength and equality of democracy but then want that democratically elected government to stay as far from their lives as possible.

Yup, that's us..paradoxical. We ourselves struggle with that. We also struggle with actually trusting the politicians we elect. The really good people out there I feel stay out of politics. WHo wants to deal with it? Private sector pay is better anyway.

Who do you want in charge of your health? A government elected by you and ultimately answering to you, or a company whose sole goal is to make money off you?

The other way to look at this is who do you want in charge of your health...the usual government ineptitude and delays, or companies that are competing to provide the best value for the $.

You can create an endless cycle of arguments to say that we always need to keep developing more weapons, but that just means that those who allegedly want to hurt you, I'm guessing you mean China since it is the only country with the means to develop a comparable military, will also need to develop bigger and worse weapons to keep up.

My opinion...it's always better to stay ahead of the game. As to who wants to hurt us...believe me they are out there. 9-11 was a wake up call.

While we're on the topic of "those who would hurt [you]", who are these mysterious people who would hurt you? .......... Of course, all of this only matters if you're arguing that these weapons are for "defense" and not for offense. If you simply believe in world domination then there's no need to rationalize a threat to yourself.

I suppose my reply to this is in my opinion the best defense is a good offense..I know it's cliche..but I still believe it and I think a lot of US citizens do.

I am very interested (no seriously) in which country you believe poses a potential threat.

You will think I'm nuts...but read some Tom Clancey. It may not be the countries that he features in his various plots, but the scenarios are plausible.

So far the logic for such devices have only saddened me: namely in that, as a scientist, I need to rigorously prove that what I claim is consistent with the data, but apparently to get billions of dollars in weapons dollars all I would need is to hint that there's the slightest possibility of a threat.

If the wolf was at your back door you would want the biggest shotgun you had loaded for bear to be sure you got that wolf.

I think that is a big difference between our countries...the biggest threat you have is if someone nukes us and the radiation cloud drifts over. Or someone shoots something big at us and misses. We know they are aiming for us. I don't know if I can convey to you the gut viceral feeling I, and I'm sure a lot of other US citizens had as we sat there on that day and knew that our country was under attack here on our soil. Until the dust settled we didn't know that it was limited number of terrorists. You just sat there in absolute stunned disbelief wondering what would happen next...would there be bombs falling out of the sky next?
Hint of a threat that there is a slightest possibility of a threat? That's enough for me. Call it a collective national paranioa if you will.
I understand that you are a rational scientist, and you're a great guy, I'm not replying to cause trouble, but maybe help explain. I do find it refreshing to see and try to understand differing points of view, and it's interesting to see how we (the US) appear to outsiders.

 

[reiverix]

I think that is a big difference between our countries...the biggest threat you have is if someone nukes us and the radiation cloud drifts over. Or someone shoots something big at us and misses. We know they are aiming for us.

That is a very good point, and quite true. But then we have to ask ourselves, why is it that way? At what moment in the past did something happen to make people feel they need to harm the US? It's a problem I don't believe will ever be solved by firepower.

 

[nursie]

Well, Reiverix; you too make a good point. That is the root of the problem. I don't feel fully qualified to debate the voodoo of US foriegn policy. What I do know is that at some point in time someone (Woodrow Wilson maybe?) thought we had a responsiblity to act as police for the world.
For me...I think the view the Chinese once held of no one in, no one out sounds good at times.
I have no desire to go overseas to Europe or the Middle East. Ever since the Achille Lauro incident, and others like it, tourists overseas are targets. On the other hand...Canada looks nice

 

[125gJoe]

nursie - Wow! Very well posted thoughts and feelings on the subject.

My thoughts were mixed when I first read the article, but not anymore. I hope the "defense in space" goes well, but I'm not sure how advanced we might think we are.

Slightly off topic..
Lately what bothers me is the 'news media' rants on and on about the 'abuse' of poor captured foreign soldiers..."War for Oil" .. etc.. And yet the 'media' completely forgets what we up against. Savages the saw the heads off innocent unarmed people. It's so strange, it seems unreal.
Why are the beliefs of these terrorists not on the news? Why not show their reasons for what they do? Oh yeah.. it's the 'jihad' thing..

Any in favor of returning to the 14th century?

........
There's more I'd like to say ... that's it for now..

....
:rant:

 

[nursie]

I really do hope that they don't give all the secrets away to the press to publish.

 

[Paccula]

There have been some amazing posts here, I don't think I could compete much.
But you know the old saying, "The best government is the one which governs least" I totally agree with that. I would not like it if the government had control of my life, like it does with certain minority groups. By posing debates and elections over certain topics it only seems to spur debates and fuel hate between groups, which in this day and age is not what we need.
On the topic of weaponization of space, I totally dissagree with it. As has been pointed out, no other country could compare. And by building bigger weapons is what makes other countries do the same, which is "reason" enough for the US to do it again.. vicious circle. I am interested in seeing what happens either way, but I would hope the US government makes the right decision.

 

[nursie]

Paccula, you are right. There are always bigger and better weapons being made so that "you"...(fill in the country name) have the upper hand.
And I too hope and pray that the US government makes the right choices. Do I trust that they do? Hmmm let me think...not all the time, that's for sure.

 

[slipknottin]

On the topic of weaponization of space, I totally dissagree with it. As has been pointed out, no other country could compare. And by building bigger weapons is what makes other countries do the same, which is "reason" enough for the US to do it again.. vicious circle. I am interested in seeing what happens either way, but I would hope the US government makes the right decision.

As I said earlier, these weapons defeat countries not militarily, but economically. Other countries attempting to keep pace will drain their economies and turn their countries upside down. No other country can finance such an operation as we can. Just like who has the biggest castle, battleship, or missle. There is a constant circle, and when you have the technology and economy to take the next step, it is foolish not to.

What if the US had not developed the nuclear missle? Or England had not developed the battleship? They would both have likely been eliminated from the world stage.

 

[Leopardess]

Reminds me of the Strategic Defense Initiative aka "Star wars" of '83. We spent billions and billions of dollars on space-based nuclear reactors and lasers and nothing significant ever came to fruition.

I think we oughta start taking care of this planet and spend less time worrying about what we can send into space - like garbage, nuclear reactors, weapons, etc.

Oh and Nursie, about the world police thing. You can thank Truman and the Truman Doctrine for that one.

And that's all I have to say about that.

 

[nursie]

Wilson started it before Truman. He grew up as a child during the civil war and wanted to see the world avoid war. He finally made the decision to get in to WW1 and used the US entry into the war and the ensuing victory as the means to start a "crusade to make the world safe". Of course congress didn't ratify the treaty he negotiated..
I wanna move to Luxomberg...for obvious reason stated in another thread.

You know Mars is just sitting up there..all empty and toasty anyway. MAybe we can blast the garbage there and it would incinerate automatically. If someone invents this after seeing this...I want a cut!!