Betta has popeye - treatment questions

[Chickadee]

Forgot to mention that I did give him some pea a few days ago, which he ate right up, and fasted him for one day. About the garlic. I don't have a press. Can I extract the juice without one? Or can I just soak the crushed garlic in some water with the pellets in that?

 

[mel_20_20]

Sorry to be slow getting back to you, my iPhone quit working.

You can chop the garlic very fine, using a non porous surface smash it with a spoon to squish out as much liquid as possible, and put the pea mush in it. It's ok if some bits of garlic are mixed in with it, he'll love it.

Good job doing that already, that has definitely helped his little tummy and gut.

 

[mel_20_20]

Be careful to remove any uneaten pea or other food debris. I hope we are only looking at a temporary environmental illness, i.e., distress and the effects due to temp drop and then traces of ammonia during the antibiotic treatment. Hopefully there is no infection going on internally, though this often happens in these situations.

But, he's doing better, his popeye has receded, he's eating, and I think his prognosis seems better, if guarded.

Keeping his water pristine is going to be vital, the water temperature stable, too.

You have well water; do you use a conditioner to treat the water? Even though you don't have chlorine or chloramine, you may still have some other issues, such as; heavy metals, nitrate, phosphates in his water.

Prime is good and is what I use, but I think in this case NovAqua Plus, which claims to be good at removing or neutralizing heavy metals, adding cations and electrolytes and vitamins, and improving the slime coat, might be a good choice, unless anyone here has any advice on this product to the contrary.

Your water may not be ideal for him, regarding ph/gh/kh, but stability of those params is more important than perfectly matching a Bettas environment in the wild.

I would try, also, to avoid letting him gulp food at the surface. He's a cutie and loves his food, obviously, but if you could soak whatever you feed him for a little bit to help the food sink fast, this would help avoid getting air into his tummy and gut.

You're doing a great job taking care of him and I know he is a fortunate little guy to have you as a friend. Keep us posted.

 

[mel_20_20]

I don't want you to think I'm implying that you don't keep his water quality in great shape, I can tell from your routine that you do.

It's just that often when treating with antibiotics, traces of ammonia can start to accumulate in the tank; the drug manufacturers often tell you to hold off on water changes until the treatment period is complete and then couple that with the added negative impact, even if minimal, that many antibiotics can have on the beneficial bacteria in the filter and tank surfaces - this can cause levels of ammonia and/or nitrite that you would not normally have in the tank.

Very few of the antibiotics we use for our fish are more effective by allowing them to remain for days in the water, then adding more and then after a period of time doing a partial water change as many products direct.

In this type of protocol ammonia and other toxic substance can reach levels that are counterproductive to the treatment plan, even barely detectable amounts. I talked with a drug rep with Jungle Labs, and another one with API and they both conceded that rising ammonia levels are a problem in those treatment plans.

Those same reps agreed that the best method is to do a big water change, dose the antibiotic, wait 24 hours, do another big water change (huge 80-90 or even 100%) and then dose and keep this up for 7 to 10 days, depending on the med, but the manufacturers don't think the hobbiest will do the huge water changes to remove most of the degraded antibiotic.

I've never used Maracyn Plus, but I understand from the company's product description and from others who have treated popeye, you selected an excellent med for that. I don't know enough about the bioavailability of it in the water for extended periods as compared to most antibiotics which degrade and are unavailable after just a few hours.

Maracyn Plus has what they call "biospheres' that attach to the fish's skin and increase the effectiveness of the drug; I haven't read enough of the company's product information to know if they claim added benefit by a cummulative effect.

At any point, since he seems improved at this point without further antibiotics I think the Betta Revive is a good product and will most likely help and will "do no harm".

I know you're keeping a watchful eye on him and will be able to see any changes, even subtle ones.

As BFM mentioned, Ich is always a possibility, but also watch for any very subtle changes to his body: any surface lesions or patchy areas... dullness... filminess... white-is or grey-ish bits or tufts, even tiny bits between his scales, which could indicate Columnaris is starting.

 

[Saje]

And if you want pictures of what columnaris might look like just beginning, I can unfortunately provide them. (Or, just look at this thread, which is pic-heavy. Thanks to Mel, I was able to get Diva past it and better.)

But - hopefully you won't be dealing with that at all, and whatever it is you *are* dealing with here will get better quickly.

One quick word about soaking pellets. As with so much else in the aquatic community - there's disagreement as to whether one needs to bother. If you want to err on the safe side and soak the pellets first, the suggestion is that you don't soak them very long - it's been said that the important stuff in the pellets can be lost in the water you're soaking in.

And btw - you can buy garlic juice! (I don't have a press either.)

 

[BettaFishMommy]

easy way to crush garlic/make juice at home: put cloves of garlic in a heavier duty ziploc bag. bash with hammer (be careful not to rip bag). snip a teensy corner on the bag. juice drips/dribbles out. tada! lol.

 

[Chickadee]

Mel, thanks for that good info on Maracyn. I did wonder why the water change before treatment. I do use Prime also.

Well, I checked the only 2 pet supply places in town and they don't have Betta Revive. I did not check Walmart but I doubt they have it. No LFS in town either, so I'm up a creek. I did find the Jungle Anti-Bacteria pellets and fed him 2 pellets tonight. He's not looking any better. He hangs at the top mostly on his leaf hammock. I got a master test kit and here are the parameters after water change:
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
My Nitrate used to be around 2-3 so I don't know how to take this reading. Could be the meds or the the water changes?

 

[Saje]

Nitrate is so low because of the frequent water changes I'm sure.

Hmm. Since Betta Revive is basically malachite green and methylene blue, does anyone know if she can buy those separately and then use together if she can find them (Kordon, I think, offers them - but not sure if her local shops carry them...) ?

 

[mel_20_20]

Danggit... I had just typed quite a bit and my computer hiccuped and I lost it. I'll try again. brb

It'll be a few minutes: I have to check on a stray cat I've been taking care of... be back asap.

 

[Chickadee]

BettaFishMommy, that's a great tip, thanks!

Saje, funny you mention this. I looked for garlic juice yesterday, had all the stock boys scratching their heads. Finally I just bought the clove. It was much like my pet store experience today, .

So... can I soak the medicated pellets in the garlic juice? Or is this just for his regular pellets?

I just remembered something. At the other supply store they had a product called "Betta Fix" I think by API. If this is the same as Betta Revive I can buy that. I'll see what I can find online about the contents.