black convict, bloodparrot crossbreed kind question
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Well said liv2padl. I won't even try to follow that. I will simply state, that in my opinion, people that are big into hybrids show an amazing amount of disregard for the natural diversity of these amazing fish. At the risk of namecalling, it smacks of intellectual immaturity.
The only reason I'm ticked off is because Harry pulled a thread of mine which was basically only receiving posts btw me and another member. His basis for doing so was completely unfounded and assinine ,IMO, and here's his explanation:
"Yes, that was me. I'm sorry, but there were just too many problems with that thread. On the one hand, you put together a completely incompatible set of fish and apparently killed a great Chocolate female from stress, and on the other hand Lady Trish was going on about her failed hybridization experiment that she seems to be determined to repeat regardless of the mess she will be making for her fellow hobbyists.
Leaving the thread untouched would have sent a completely wrong message to any new hobbyists that happened to come across it, and I just didn't feel like rehashing those arguments in public, especially since it would have come across as a public reprimand to all concerned."
Why does it have to be a public reprimand. Educate people, tell them what is responsible, and was is completely irresponsible, and if they continue to act in an ill-manner, like many already do, oh well at least you educated some people and cut down on future incidences like these. I just wish if he was going to police this board he would actually take time to verify what he read, not glance through a post, totally misconstrue it, and then continue to tear it down without any warning because he deemed a mix of fish "incompatible", or did not wish for people to be allowed to speak of hybridization, or because he 100% falsely stated/believed that I killed one of my fish. This is completely false, unless she floats with her fins and gills moving, and somehow posthumously learned to eat. Although my fish mix may be unorthodox, there are certainly no more problems than any 'ol similar tank. So, I think what we have here is a third party getting overly-involved when they shouldnt have. I'm sorry but more of moderating and less of Lord-ing.
I agree with Liv2 on many points in his statement, and agree that we do as hobbyists have a responsibility. However, Liv2 and other aquaria purists on this board, is it really that big a sin to just see what happens to the fry should breding just happen? I mean from what gathered, lady trish was simply witnessing that her GT and oscar were pairing up, and was going to allow it to happen. Is it that big a NO-NO that someone do this, or are you more concerned with these fry being released into the public. Because though I def see where you are coming from, I do not think it is wrong for someone to do this and maybe keep a couple/ give a couple to learned friends who are totally aware of what they are, and plan on raising them as they would a "natural" fish, providing there aren't too many visible health complications that would deter the fish from having a happy life. And if Harry was trying to avoid a convo like this, why?????? Aren't you trying to educate the people on these boards?? And if I offended anyone I am sorry.
"Yes, that was me. I'm sorry, but there were just too many problems with that thread. On the one hand, you put together a completely incompatible set of fish and apparently killed a great Chocolate female from stress, and on the other hand Lady Trish was going on about her failed hybridization experiment that she seems to be determined to repeat regardless of the mess she will be making for her fellow hobbyists.
Leaving the thread untouched would have sent a completely wrong message to any new hobbyists that happened to come across it, and I just didn't feel like rehashing those arguments in public, especially since it would have come across as a public reprimand to all concerned."
Why does it have to be a public reprimand. Educate people, tell them what is responsible, and was is completely irresponsible, and if they continue to act in an ill-manner, like many already do, oh well at least you educated some people and cut down on future incidences like these. I just wish if he was going to police this board he would actually take time to verify what he read, not glance through a post, totally misconstrue it, and then continue to tear it down without any warning because he deemed a mix of fish "incompatible", or did not wish for people to be allowed to speak of hybridization, or because he 100% falsely stated/believed that I killed one of my fish. This is completely false, unless she floats with her fins and gills moving, and somehow posthumously learned to eat. Although my fish mix may be unorthodox, there are certainly no more problems than any 'ol similar tank. So, I think what we have here is a third party getting overly-involved when they shouldnt have. I'm sorry but more of moderating and less of Lord-ing.
I agree with Liv2 on many points in his statement, and agree that we do as hobbyists have a responsibility. However, Liv2 and other aquaria purists on this board, is it really that big a sin to just see what happens to the fry should breding just happen? I mean from what gathered, lady trish was simply witnessing that her GT and oscar were pairing up, and was going to allow it to happen. Is it that big a NO-NO that someone do this, or are you more concerned with these fry being released into the public. Because though I def see where you are coming from, I do not think it is wrong for someone to do this and maybe keep a couple/ give a couple to learned friends who are totally aware of what they are, and plan on raising them as they would a "natural" fish, providing there aren't too many visible health complications that would deter the fish from having a happy life. And if Harry was trying to avoid a convo like this, why?????? Aren't you trying to educate the people on these boards?? And if I offended anyone I am sorry.
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Who cares what others say if you have two fish that decide to breed and you want them to do so and there in you tank, GO FOR IT! Its not like your releasing them into the wild and at worst they will become feeders or who knows you my end up w/ the next "Flowerhorn"
For everyone else who is getting bent out of shape I am not saying everyone cant have an opnion because this is America and anyone can do whatever they like so if you dont like hybrids dont keep them if you do keep them breed them do whatever you like just dont release them into any US water ways.
For everyone else who is getting bent out of shape I am not saying everyone cant have an opnion because this is America and anyone can do whatever they like so if you dont like hybrids dont keep them if you do keep them breed them do whatever you like just dont release them into any US water ways.
That article that liv2padl posted can be found on this website..
Personally I could careless if people keep their fish in their tub. It's their home, their fish, their choice. As most have pointed out here, the problem arises with the inevitable pawning off of "new cichlid species" to unsuspecting hobbyists. It happens. It happens with even the advanced hobbyist. There was a Trimac that was entered in the 2005 ACA contest that was questionably a hybrid. The majority of Red Devils sold in LFS today are inevitably Citrinellum/Labiatum crosses. The Vieja complex continues to have their genetic line muddied with intentional and unintentional gene mixing. It's sad...but it's here to stay.
This topic always brings along strong and sometimes controversial conversation. I think it's good to discuss it. I also think the people who breed Flowermonsters have just as much right to say their piece as the next guy. But that's it. When it gets into personal attacks, it stops. Beezer, it just so happens that regardless of how you feel about how Harry handled the previous post, the fact remains that he is one of the most knowledgable, UNopionated and fair moderators on the board. And like the rest of us are just volunteers. So before anyone gets their knickers in a twist...it's just a fish forum. Chill.
BTW. My personal feelings about Flowermonsters are stated quite clearly in my signature.
Personally I could careless if people keep their fish in their tub. It's their home, their fish, their choice. As most have pointed out here, the problem arises with the inevitable pawning off of "new cichlid species" to unsuspecting hobbyists. It happens. It happens with even the advanced hobbyist. There was a Trimac that was entered in the 2005 ACA contest that was questionably a hybrid. The majority of Red Devils sold in LFS today are inevitably Citrinellum/Labiatum crosses. The Vieja complex continues to have their genetic line muddied with intentional and unintentional gene mixing. It's sad...but it's here to stay.
This topic always brings along strong and sometimes controversial conversation. I think it's good to discuss it. I also think the people who breed Flowermonsters have just as much right to say their piece as the next guy. But that's it. When it gets into personal attacks, it stops. Beezer, it just so happens that regardless of how you feel about how Harry handled the previous post, the fact remains that he is one of the most knowledgable, UNopionated and fair moderators on the board. And like the rest of us are just volunteers. So before anyone gets their knickers in a twist...it's just a fish forum. Chill.
BTW. My personal feelings about Flowermonsters are stated quite clearly in my signature.
Please do not bash me!! I am new to this site and had asked for opinions on the oscar /choclate. I have a male in there that she has bred with in the past that she has now rejected.I looked here for opinions and the only responses I recieved were positive. I have never cross bred and I am sorry I did not allready know your opinion on this subject. :thud:
Trish...if you are talking to me, don't sweat it for a minute. I'm neither judging nor bashing. Enjoy the hobby...have a good time. Seriously...no problem. 
Always feel free to ask whatever. Happy to help.
Always feel free to ask whatever. Happy to help.
No it is not you it is a few responses back ago. It just hurt my feelings. I guess I had a bad day at work came here to escape those thoughts and that is what I found. Look at my thread for the choclate oscar cross if you were me would you try to do it from those responses. and I stated I had bred her with a male of her own species.
Separate question;
You said there are varieties of veija was I one of those unknowing.
Separate question;
You said there are varieties of veija was I one of those unknowing.
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