Dwarf Rainbow with foot and mouth disease???

[mel_20_20]

I hope you can order the Metro. Let us know. Did you decide to isolate him? One method I've used to catch a difficult fish is this:

Get a clear plastic container, one of those dip/display containers that the fish stores have, you know .... a clear rectangular box-like thing....

Or, a glass measuring cup from the kitchen, or new plastic one.

You will use your dip net to try to gently steer or guide the fish in the direction you want, towards the clear container.

Have the cup or container down on the substrate... I usually try to be near a corner and guide the fish to the corner....

(this, of course, requires that your hands and arms are thoroughly clean and free from chemicals, soap, etc., because you have to reach down in there, :grinyes:l)

I'm holding the cup or container, as inconspicuously as possible, and guide the fish towards the container. Since it's clear, they usually don't really notice the container, at least not until you actually start to herd him into the cup.

Once he's heading into the cup you keep right behind him with the net to keep him from turning around and jetting out of the cup.

It works for me.:thm:

 

[mel_20_20]

Of course, if we thought this was fish TB you would certainly not want to reach down into the tank, unless you had some of those long disposable sleeve/gloves you can order.

You wouldn't want to risk exposing yourself to that, though I don't think that's what is going on with your fish.

 

[Cerianthus]

HAZMAT suit if fish TB causing spores go airborne?? LOL!!!

I seriously doubt this is an case of fish TB (different types of sores/lesions) from many Fish TB experiences I went thru although being cautious wouldnt hurt.

Fabio, keep us posted of progress.

 

[fabiobruno]

No major progress so far, still waiting for metro to come through (as I was at it I also ordered Erythromycin, that should maracyn active ingredient, but couldn't get monocycline, maracyn II, for that one I really needed prescription), as I mentioned as a precautionary measure for the other fish I administered the Interpet tonic and everyone seems OK so far.

BTW the lesion on the mouth really looks like cauliflower diseases to me... how did you rule this out so definitively, apparently it is also quite a common virus?

 

[fabiobruno]

Actually I just spotted 4 of these in my tank (and managed to remove 2), this one in the photo was about 1 cm. long (1/3"), I'm wondering if there is a relation with the lumps.... I'm going to check all types of parasites later today and what I need to do to get rid of those.

 

[blue2fyre]

That's just a planaria. They are completely harmless.

 

[Cerianthus]

All the lympho that I experienced really will looks llike cauliflower (not a nodule), an affected muscle tissues protruding b/n scales, not on the lips. In the begining of muscle protrusion, one may assume such symptoms to be very similar to TB but TB would be followed by lesions and eventually curved spines in severe cases..

As far as Planaria, it couldve been introduced via fish, plants, lfs tank water, Inverts, etc). Few is not a problem but population explosion means high amt of detritus (overfeeding, feed small amt more often) in the tank. Clean out filter media (breeding ground sometimes) more often than usual when population increases drastically. If you have two independent filters, you can even dip (1) filter media in boiling water and alternate b/n two filters every week or so.

Like I said, small but frequent water changes if decided to improve water conditions in terms of decaying organic matters but again I would approach with natural predators of flatworms.
Depending on Species and of course on each individual fish, these flatworms were delicacy for anabantoids (Pearl Gourami, etc, etc) & some dwarf cichlids (Kribs, etc, etc.).

I hope this is a case of viral infection over Protozoan infestation. Well, it would better to be neither.

I didnt realized UK had such strict control over drugs. I am glad in one hand that less abuses of med will be praticed under strict controls.
You know, one should even take time to deactivate the medicated water in separate container for few days before dumping them out. Exposure to heat will do such for many drugs(hook up a heater for few days at highest temp possible or even better to boil).

If erythromycin is avail but not minocyline, try looking for oxytetracycline (terramycin) as both are derivatives of tetracycline. These are antibiotic and not effective against what youre experiencing with rainbow.

IF suspect TB, look for Kanamycin or related compound.


Looking forward to complete recovery on its own. Isolation is the key to inhibiting /minimizing the spread of diseases.

 

[fabiobruno]

Glad to hear it is planaria, I've just check it out on the web and I see it is quite normal and doesn't harm the fish, however it could mean I do overfeed... I'm feeding twice a day, usually frozen food in the morning and some flakes in the evening, my fish finish everything in a couple of minutes but maybe I should decrease the amount anyway.

The precox is still in the main tank, unless something gets worse I'm planning to finish the Interpet treatment before moving him. I'm planning a 25% water change tomorrow, that another dose the day after, meanwhile I hope to get the metro so that I can move him to the QT and start the antibiotic.

What about lymecycline, that is again an high soluble tetracycline, do you think this could be used to treat bacterial infections?

 

[Cerianthus]

Glad to hear it is planaria, I've just check it out on the web and I see it is quite normal and doesn't harm the fish, however it could mean I do overfeed... I'm feeding twice a day, usually frozen food in the morning and some flakes in the evening, my fish finish everything in a couple of minutes but maybe I should decrease the amount anyway.

The precox is still in the main tank, unless something gets worse I'm planning to finish the Interpet treatment before moving him. I'm planning a 25% water change tomorrow, that another dose the day after, meanwhile I hope to get the metro so that I can move him to the QT and start the antibiotic.

What about lymecycline, that is again an high soluble tetracycline, do you think this could be used to treat bacterial infections?

When to move is your call but sooner the better as each ticking second, spores and/or cysts containing massive amt of spores may be released provided this is nodular disease caused by protozoa.

Lymecycline is antibiotic but would not know the proper [conc] to be used. Unlike metro(not just antibiotic but also antiprotozoal), TC or its derivatives wont work against any protozoans, at least to my knowledge.

Keep in mind that my thoughts are with an assumption this is a case of protozoan infections.

 

[mel_20_20]

Sorry to be slow getting back here... I logged on and then got a phone call.

I don't know how I didn't see your post, Cerianthus, describing the plastic container/scoop out method of catching fish.

I agree that doing research for yourself is the way to really gain knowledge, but we all learn from others who have gone before us and who have done the work.

That info I posted from the University of Florida link is from my files on my laptop. I've actually had it for quite some time, and I wish I had had that source early on in my fishkeeping.

It would have helped a lot when I was treating my Brochis and Otos with metro, although as Cerianthus brought out, weighing and measuring out the oral dosages for tiny fish is next to impossible, and even if you could do that with some precision, dropping medicated food into the tank is an imprecise way to get a patient to get medicine inside of them.

This forum is an excellent source of information in so many aspects of fishkeeping. Learning from the experience of others....

After a few years of fishkeeping; learning from the gurus here; doing research to handle issues and problems that arise; I have a huge file on my laptop I titled, "Aquaria", and within that file are more files, the biggest being "Freshwater Illness & Disease" which has many subcategories within that file. I can get a bit obsessive, lol.

I've copied and pasted links to cases here on AC, and from papers and scholarly articles that I've read from that UF link and from many other sources. If my computer ever crashes I"ll be very upset, lol.

In my files I have a huge collection, also, of photos of fish with various illnesses and aflictions. I've thought about presenting my collection of photo images of fish with different diseases and illnesses to the mods here to see if they feel it might be helpful as a sticky.

The link to the University of Florida Department of Fisheries and Aquatic Sciences, though, is one that everyone should have; there's a wealth of information on fish illness and husbandry there, and yes it is more directed to commercial aquaculture, but there is very much that can be helpful to the hobbiest as well.

Here's a better link for that site:

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa042

Fabio, so far, the lesion on the mouth of your Rainbow doesn't look characteristic of Lymphocystis. Your fish has what looks like nodules under the skin there. Lymphocystis really does look lumpy and grainy like cauliflower. More warty looking, too.

There certainly could be something else going on, bacterial or viral, but so far I don't see any of the other definitve signs of an internal or external bacterial infection.

There does seem to be some pinkish coloration on the mouth lesion, but I believe if it were bacterial there would be more redness. If it were Lymphocysts, the lesions would seem more to be sitting on the surface of the skin or fins of the fish, looking more like growths.

If it is viral, then there's nothing to be done but provide optimum conditions in the fish's environment to help its own immune system fight this.

If it's protozoan then the Metro may or may not help. Tetracycline is a good antibiotic and if there is a bacterial component to the fish's condition then it might help, though often an antibiotic may treat one type of bacteria that is sensitive to it, but not others.

Once he's in quarantine you might try that, but I would go with the Metro first. If, however, there seems to be no improvment after several days, or if there is a sudden worsening of his condition along with the development of other signs of bacterial infection then you could go ahead and start Tetracycline right away.

I remember reading an abstract that described using Tetracycline and Metronidazole in combination to treat a specific infection in humans, so I'm thinking you could safely combine the two in treating your fish, however, I think it would be good to try to find confirmation of that in regards to the combination of those two meds in treating fish. What works for humans may not necessarily be good for fish.