From Meds to none - NOW WHAT?
- Thread starter cptkd
- Start date
Ok - First things first: I did double check my tap water this morning and it DOES sit right on the borderline of 0.25ppm.
Think I'll be calling the city....LOL!
Did a water change this morning - Prior to doing so, Cory was all over the place being "silly" and seemed to be enjoying himself immensely. This however left me UNABLE to take any sort of pics of him. He just wouldn't sit still and when he did, he'd move as soon as I took the pic - Everything came out blurry and undetectable. Sorry!
With regards to my girl.... I think she's dying and it's breaking my heart. She hasn't left the top corner of the tank where the heater is. Her gills remain red and she's staying more and more at the top of the water. I feel totally helpless and so I'm heading out to get the "Jungle" food. I simply don't have time, nor am I totally unpacked yet to know where everything is to put anything together... Let's just say, it's been all about the fish.... And so I need to get my life in order once this problem settles itself down.
The disease Culumnaris" keeps coming up in some posts - IS this what they might possibly have?
It basically sounds like what was diagnosed and what I treated for....
What treatment is used for this disease, and am I too late to get them treated for it?
Should I continue to use some aquarium salt here?
As far as my nitrates, I only tested off a strip last night, and yes they both came in at "0". Anything higher would have indicated itself either as a "20" and/or "0.5". I figured my nitrates are fine but will do a proper liquid test today for good measure....
Guess it's a wait and see from here.... I just want to keep doing water changes and give great big hugs to my fishies to make them better....
Guess I can't be over-doing those eh?
The water changes, silly souls....
As it stands, I can't pull myself away from the tank, and each time I'm there, I gotta a hand on it somewhere - Certainly they must sense my energy..... LOL!
I did get some pics, but now I have to try to find my patch cord to load 'em up....
Nobody please hold their breath on that one right now ok - But I'm trying! It's life and death here....
Again, I thank you all for your help, support, feedback and guidance....
Kim
Think I'll be calling the city....LOL!
Did a water change this morning - Prior to doing so, Cory was all over the place being "silly" and seemed to be enjoying himself immensely. This however left me UNABLE to take any sort of pics of him. He just wouldn't sit still and when he did, he'd move as soon as I took the pic - Everything came out blurry and undetectable. Sorry!
With regards to my girl.... I think she's dying and it's breaking my heart. She hasn't left the top corner of the tank where the heater is. Her gills remain red and she's staying more and more at the top of the water. I feel totally helpless and so I'm heading out to get the "Jungle" food. I simply don't have time, nor am I totally unpacked yet to know where everything is to put anything together... Let's just say, it's been all about the fish.... And so I need to get my life in order once this problem settles itself down.
The disease Culumnaris" keeps coming up in some posts - IS this what they might possibly have?
It basically sounds like what was diagnosed and what I treated for....
What treatment is used for this disease, and am I too late to get them treated for it?
Should I continue to use some aquarium salt here?
As far as my nitrates, I only tested off a strip last night, and yes they both came in at "0". Anything higher would have indicated itself either as a "20" and/or "0.5". I figured my nitrates are fine but will do a proper liquid test today for good measure....
Guess it's a wait and see from here.... I just want to keep doing water changes and give great big hugs to my fishies to make them better....
Guess I can't be over-doing those eh?
The water changes, silly souls....
As it stands, I can't pull myself away from the tank, and each time I'm there, I gotta a hand on it somewhere - Certainly they must sense my energy..... LOL!
I did get some pics, but now I have to try to find my patch cord to load 'em up....
Nobody please hold their breath on that one right now ok - But I'm trying! It's life and death here....
Again, I thank you all for your help, support, feedback and guidance....
Kim
Assuming the fish has Flavobacter (Columnaris): IMO i would immediately get those fish on either either Kanamycin, Jungle Fungus Clear (which is also excellent for Columnaris), or Mel's suggestion of Furan 2 to give them a good shot at living. Best bet would be a Kanamycin/Furan 2 combo. These have all worked for me. Sometimes though with systemic infections there is not much you can do... but you must try! Antibiotic in the food is also a good idea, but with Kanamycin it is quickly processed without the absolute need to feed it to the fish. Most antibiotics take too much time to work unless you feed it to them - and a dying fish is very tough to feed.
This will give you good info and also help you diagnose since you don't have pics up. Read it, know it:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/columnaris_disease.php
http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Columnaris.html
Also, I would immediately get the dying fish into a 2% or 3% salt bath as directed in the cichlid-forum link ASAP. Be very careful if you do this as you can kill your fish fairly easily if not careful (especially so with salt intolerant fish). I have cured rainbows and kribs with this method and believe me, they were at 'death's door'. Methylene blue baths with/without salt are also an option, as are Potassium Perm baths. Good luck!
As an aside, the Maracyns have been totally useless each time I have tried them for Columnaris (and apparently for many others) . Maybe they worked in the past for this disease, but apparently these bacteria are now 80-90% immune to the Maracyns. I wish that people would stop suggesting their use for this, as it just wastes time IMO.
This will give you good info and also help you diagnose since you don't have pics up. Read it, know it:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/columnaris_disease.php
http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Columnaris.html
Also, I would immediately get the dying fish into a 2% or 3% salt bath as directed in the cichlid-forum link ASAP. Be very careful if you do this as you can kill your fish fairly easily if not careful (especially so with salt intolerant fish). I have cured rainbows and kribs with this method and believe me, they were at 'death's door'. Methylene blue baths with/without salt are also an option, as are Potassium Perm baths. Good luck!
As an aside, the Maracyns have been totally useless each time I have tried them for Columnaris (and apparently for many others) . Maybe they worked in the past for this disease, but apparently these bacteria are now 80-90% immune to the Maracyns. I wish that people would stop suggesting their use for this, as it just wastes time IMO.
Last edited:
"Best bet would be a Kanamycin/Furan 2 combo."
At this point, I think that's what I'm going to have to do -
There's NO WAY she's going to eat for me.... :`(
And honestly, I'm afraid to try the salt bath - What if I DO kill her?
She's not doing very good as it is... I did actually consider Euthanization
at one point this morning. I'm just not ready to give up, just yet!
Thanks for all the info you provided me - Looks like I got lots of reading to
get caught up on in a short amount of time....
Be back soon.... ;`)
At this point, I think that's what I'm going to have to do -
There's NO WAY she's going to eat for me.... :`(
And honestly, I'm afraid to try the salt bath - What if I DO kill her?
She's not doing very good as it is... I did actually consider Euthanization
at one point this morning. I'm just not ready to give up, just yet!
Thanks for all the info you provided me - Looks like I got lots of reading to
get caught up on in a short amount of time....
Be back soon.... ;`)
I understand your hesitance with the salt bath. Maybe try a .5 or 1% solution instead since the fish sounds very weak? Like I mentioned, I had a Krib with the tell-tale cotton strings coming out of it's mouth, very red gills, and breathing very heavy. Other fish were already dead, but it cured the fish as well as other rainbows. This was most likely the AJS1 strain as from first symptom to death was about 8 hours.
Another time no matter what I tried I could not cure the fish. I could alleviate some symptoms, but not cure the fish.
Before you euthanize (should it come to that), give it a try. As soon as the fish 'rolls' immediately take it out and put it back into the fresh water. There is not much to lose at that point and at least you will gain some experience for the next time...and if we don't give up this hobby there will be a next time at some point.
In any case, research what you can and make the best decision for you and your fish. Good luck.
Another time no matter what I tried I could not cure the fish. I could alleviate some symptoms, but not cure the fish.
Before you euthanize (should it come to that), give it a try. As soon as the fish 'rolls' immediately take it out and put it back into the fresh water. There is not much to lose at that point and at least you will gain some experience for the next time...and if we don't give up this hobby there will be a next time at some point.
In any case, research what you can and make the best decision for you and your fish. Good luck.
I guess my hesitency lies with NOT knowing exactly HOW
to do it - Let alone getting her out, and into it - Which is WHAT exactly?
I have aquarium salt, but the measurements and the container issue
are confusing me - As stupid as that sounds!
I WANT to save her - But I don't quite know HOW?
S-S-S
Kim
to do it - Let alone getting her out, and into it - Which is WHAT exactly?
I have aquarium salt, but the measurements and the container issue
are confusing me - As stupid as that sounds!
I WANT to save her - But I don't quite know HOW?
S-S-S
Kim
Hi Kim. I'm sorry I haven't been able to check on things today, I've had some health things going on myself that kept me away from the computer until just now.*
Kivstev's advice is spot on. I didn't mention Kanamycin because I thought it might not be readily available and tetracycline is easy to find.
I wanted Kanamycin and had to order it from Petmountain.com and it took several days to get to me. I can't find it at Petsmart or Petco, at least not the ones near me, but if you can find it it would be good to use with the Furan 2.
The salt dips may sound scary, but at this point you're in "last ditch effort" mode, and I would try it for sure.
Even dosing a 1 to 3% solution of salt in a tank with Columnaris is beneficial in preventing mortality in fish, proportional to the percentage, with best results at 3%. There is evidence that it prevents infection in non-infected fish by preventing the flavobacterium from attaching to the fish.
3 teaspooons of table salt per gallon of water is a 3% solution. You don't have to use aquarium salt. Really, plain table salt is fine; based on recommendations by several AC members who have chemistry and biology degrees. The trace amount of iodine and anti-caking ingredients are negligible and won't cause a problem, and it dissolves quickly.
Use dechlorinated water that is the same temp as the tank. 3% is not terribly harsh but you could do 2% by using 2 teaspoons.
If you are using aquarium salt about 4 teaspoons is 3%, so you could make up a gallon and dilute it accordingly to make 1 to 2% if you want to be cautious.
I have one of those plastic rectangular containers that the fish stores use to dip out the fish and pour into plastic bags when they sell fish to customers. It is less stressful than netting, IMO. I use a net to kind of direct the fish into the plastic dip container, which is clear and often not even noticed by the fish.
Once you have the fish in the dip container I would carefully pour off most of it and then gently slip the fish into the container with the dissolved saltwater at the desired concentration. I haven't done dips like this for Columnaris, so I don't know how long you leave them in the solution, but I'm sure the links Kivstev gave you have more information on the procedure.
I'm so hoping your fish are better. Columnaris, which is usually accompanied by aeromonas, is a very serious infection, and often even with all one's best efforts the mortality rate can be high.
If things don't go well for you and your little friends, please know that you have made valiant efforts on their behalf, and they couldn't have had a more caring keeper. You have done your very best for them. Please know that.
Give us and update, please, we all care very much.
* I was interrupted after typing this about an hour ago, and I just came back to the computer and realized I hadn't hit the "post" button on this post.
Kivstev's advice is spot on. I didn't mention Kanamycin because I thought it might not be readily available and tetracycline is easy to find.
I wanted Kanamycin and had to order it from Petmountain.com and it took several days to get to me. I can't find it at Petsmart or Petco, at least not the ones near me, but if you can find it it would be good to use with the Furan 2.
The salt dips may sound scary, but at this point you're in "last ditch effort" mode, and I would try it for sure.
Even dosing a 1 to 3% solution of salt in a tank with Columnaris is beneficial in preventing mortality in fish, proportional to the percentage, with best results at 3%. There is evidence that it prevents infection in non-infected fish by preventing the flavobacterium from attaching to the fish.
3 teaspooons of table salt per gallon of water is a 3% solution. You don't have to use aquarium salt. Really, plain table salt is fine; based on recommendations by several AC members who have chemistry and biology degrees. The trace amount of iodine and anti-caking ingredients are negligible and won't cause a problem, and it dissolves quickly.
Use dechlorinated water that is the same temp as the tank. 3% is not terribly harsh but you could do 2% by using 2 teaspoons.
If you are using aquarium salt about 4 teaspoons is 3%, so you could make up a gallon and dilute it accordingly to make 1 to 2% if you want to be cautious.
I have one of those plastic rectangular containers that the fish stores use to dip out the fish and pour into plastic bags when they sell fish to customers. It is less stressful than netting, IMO. I use a net to kind of direct the fish into the plastic dip container, which is clear and often not even noticed by the fish.
Once you have the fish in the dip container I would carefully pour off most of it and then gently slip the fish into the container with the dissolved saltwater at the desired concentration. I haven't done dips like this for Columnaris, so I don't know how long you leave them in the solution, but I'm sure the links Kivstev gave you have more information on the procedure.
I'm so hoping your fish are better. Columnaris, which is usually accompanied by aeromonas, is a very serious infection, and often even with all one's best efforts the mortality rate can be high.
If things don't go well for you and your little friends, please know that you have made valiant efforts on their behalf, and they couldn't have had a more caring keeper. You have done your very best for them. Please know that.
Give us and update, please, we all care very much.
* I was interrupted after typing this about an hour ago, and I just came back to the computer and realized I hadn't hit the "post" button on this post.
Couldn't find the Kanamycin, nor could I find the Furan yesterday -
They didn't have it at my immediate LFS, and I couldn't get to Big Al's
yesterday.... I'm preparing for another water change (Big one) and I'm
going to do the salt bath dip after she's adjusted to new water -
I'm scared as all heck, but I have no choice.
It's that or euthanization!
Guess that could occur at this point with this procedure regardless,
but I have to do something and NOTHING else has helped.....
Flying by the seat of my pants here, so wish me luck - I'll keep you posted!
Kim
They didn't have it at my immediate LFS, and I couldn't get to Big Al's
yesterday.... I'm preparing for another water change (Big one) and I'm
going to do the salt bath dip after she's adjusted to new water -
I'm scared as all heck, but I have no choice.
It's that or euthanization!
Guess that could occur at this point with this procedure regardless,
but I have to do something and NOTHING else has helped.....
Flying by the seat of my pants here, so wish me luck - I'll keep you posted!
Kim
