Healthy Angelfish with stuff hanging from his fins - keeps going away and coming back

[Cerianthus]

Lympho crossed my mind as well as Ive exp so many cases in f/w and s/w but no lympho Ive exp actually came and go at their will. Most of the cases, they got larger unless physically removed.
Perhaps viral infection I never encountered???

SO I guess Ive got your consent to send images/videos if and when possible? Who know if this is unkown case and may well receive/cause international attention/sensation??? :joke:

I would be darned if this was very simple thing:cheers:

 

[sundragon]

UPDATE

Update: (I'm thinking the last one, unless I get more information regarding what this could be)
The lesions came back... I suspect the Furan-2 had no affect. I came back from work and there were lesions on the pelvic fins again. I checked the water parameters and they were the same as before:

Water Conditions
Ammonia:0
Nitrite:0.25
Nitrate:5
pH:7.2

I had done a partial water change in the AM before work and I was faced with either leaving the fish in the water for another 2 days of treatment (Box instructions indicate 2 day increments) and try to keep up the partial water changes and hope the Nitrites don't affect the health of the fish or return her to the main for the reasons posted in the previous updates:

• Furan-2 no affect
• Nitrites may stress and bring on another illness
• This "infection" has been ongoing for 6 months and it doesn't seem to be contagious to the other fish.
• Not going to continue random treatment until I get a more definitive theory on what this is and then decide on course of action.

I suspect it's a viral infection maybe another form of specific Lymphocystis as the other Angel's don't seem to be affected. Or some kind of bacterial infection that doesn't progress enough to kill the fish - though unlikely as it would have spread to the other fish.

I put her back in the tank and she adjusted well - video below - Fed last night and tonight. The netting process rubbed off the lesions when I placed her in the tank last night.

Perhaps viral infection I never encountered???


I suspect as well...

SO I guess Ive got your consent to send images/videos if and when possible? Who know if this is unkown case and may well receive/cause international attention/sensation???

Yes you have my consent - I will post the contents of this thread in a condensed form on a few other aquarium/tropical fish related forums in hopes to get some more insite.

I'm getting the error on uploading images so I can't post the image of the lesion I pulled out from the bottom of QT. This seems to be an issue they are working out.

Videos: (One from after work, showing a new set of lesions. One from a this morning right before feeding)

[video=youtube;5xkNgJHNbqs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xkNgJHNbqs[/video]

[video=youtube;aQLoldMuiso]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQLoldMuiso[/video]

 

[Cerianthus]

What you know? I pretty much dismissed Lympho as possibility with the fact that my experiences with Lympho didnt actually came and go on by itself. Upon pulling out old textbook and some of my old notations, I realized I never gave my fish to fully develop lesions for them to rupture and release lymphocystis cells. Ive always removed such lesion upon discovering. Although some lesion has returned to same area and even on new areas, I always removed lesions followed by topical application of many different ointments/antiseptics, etc, etc. This is what I meant as part of going further with the lesions or similar...

I am darned as this actually maybe common Lymphocystis & thanx to this thread & SD, who seems to resolved the issue on his/her own, I again learned never to prematurally determine/dismiss based on what I thought I knew/remembered well!!!!

A very good reason why one should never claim he/she is good which I read from time to time thru forums. In real life, one with qualification never have to claim such as their actions will deliver and always leave room for unknown since there are so many unknowns.

Although leaning toward Lympho, still shouldnt disregard other possibilities such as Sarcomass, etc, etc.

According to my textbook, morbidity of Lympho is low even among most susceptible species but that does not necessarily mean it wont spread to other fishes with all the replicated Lympho cells released, especially fish with open wound. Final decision is yours.

There are many research datas avail on net so take your time choosing and reading to be used as references/guidances.

http://aquarticles.com/articles/management/Lawler_Lymphocystis.html

Good Luck with Beastie! Hopefuilly lesson well learned, not just by me but others as well!

 

[sundragon]

Good Luck with Beastie! Hopefuilly lesson well learned, not just by me but others as well!

Thanks, I would have rather learned this 2 months ago - Le sigh...

I'm not going to write it off as lymphocystis- Every image I've seen of lymphocystis lesions look quite different from what the angel presents. The fuzzy stuff that surrounds the lesion could be a secondary infection, or a symptom of a totally different disease - All of this evidence makes it harder to define as lymphocystis.

I don't have enough information on Sarcomass.

According to my textbook, morbidity of Lympho is low even among most susceptible species but that does not necessarily mean it wont spread to other fishes with all the replicated Lympho cells released, especially fish with open wound. Final decision is yours.

• I can assume that there is no to low morbidity considering how many times this has come and gone on it's own - 6 months - independently of treatment. I have learned what does bring it on, though.
  
• I can safely assume that it's not very contagious as none of the fish have presented any symptoms, including other angelfish. It may have been something that is specific to this type of angel.
  
• Upon placing the angel back in the tank - it really perked up and is back to being the most dominant.

To destroy a fish when presented with the above would be absurd in my opinion. If I saw that this was contagious, I would move/destroy the angel to save the rest - without a doubt. The quarantine tank can barely house the fish for a short time, definitely not realistically for 6 months to a year that it takes to clear lymphocystis - if that's what it is.

Did you hear back from your contacts? I still need to post this on a few other fish forums.

 

[Cerianthus]

Well, No one can pinpoint exactly what it is/could be w/o examination/testing, etc, etc.

Google following book on fish diseases, similar to few that I have (pretty old) and I dont want to type all the details. Finding/Reading from small prints off over 1000 pages books is hard enough.

Fish Disease: Diagnosis & Treatment by Edward J. Noga or other related books.

You should able to preview some books and find useable/useful info on fish diseases.

Again use it as references as it is close to impossible to render accurate/correct diagnosis just from reading materials, not to mention the difficulties of rendering even educated guess sometimes but should be able to narrow down the possibilities. However dont sit on one possibility as there are so many possible causes that most hobbyists may not have encountered yet (no experiences).

At least you are getting/got a handful right now!

Not even a response.

I am not a believer of euthanization unless necessary. There was a thread involving fish with lost eyes and everyone is posting about the best method of euthanization. I feel if fish has a chance of living, why euthanize as I had few blinded fish/disease free (some needed medical assistances of course) due to aggression lived long when kept in its own tank. :thumbsup:

I meant as to provide its own quarter for while in order to minimize any possible chances of spreading (chronic diseases) to others which only you can decide. If this is Lympho, who know if Beastie will produce/build antibody and become immuned with time.:cheers:

Hope all goes well

 

[mel_20_20]

Wow, this issue has been going on for such a long time. I've been away from AC for weeks, ongoing difficulties here that keep me away, unfortunately, and I haven't been able to look in to see how things are going for Beastie.

This is truly a very perplexing case. I've had several cases of lymphocystis and never had it look like this, though that doesn't exclude it as a possibiity, that's for sure.

I hope Beastie recovers from whatever this is. You have been working your butt off trying to get her well; keep up the fine fight.

 

[Cerianthus]

Wow, this issue has been going on for such a long time. I've been away from AC for weeks, ongoing difficulties here that keep me away, unfortunately, and I haven't been able to look in to see how things are going for Beastie.

This is truly a very perplexing case. I've had several cases of lymphocystis and never had it look like this, though that doesn't exclude it as a possibiity, that's for sure.

I hope Beastie recovers from whatever this is. You have been working your butt off trying to get her well; keep up the fine fight.

Wondering where youve been?? Hope everything is OK!

 

[mel_20_20]

Thanks, Cerianthus.

Health issues with family members. Life does go on, though, doesn't it.

I appreciate the kind wishes.

 

[Cerianthus]

Thanks, Cerianthus.

Health issues with family members. Life does go on, though, doesn't it.

I appreciate the kind wishes.

:topic:I Know what you mean as it is daily routine thing for me with few elderlies in the family. Life must go on

One thing I cant never get used to is getting a phone call in the middle of the night!

Dont know what it is or why but always assume the worst as I jump out of bed.

 

[sundragon]

Updates

Sorry for the delay in updates: Laptop needed some IT lovin' and work.

Angel is fine, larger, and everyone else in the tank is well.

I noticed a lesion right near it's left eye - it did the usual dissappearing act after 48 hours. None of the other Angels have shown any symptoms.

I read a fantastic piece about Viruses, Lymphocystis in Aquarium Fish International's April 2011 issue. It really sounds like that. Interestingly the lesions last a lot longer in general from the article - I hope I'm doing a good job keeping the water quality good so it doesn't stay. It is supposed to go away on it's own. They didn't mention that it's highly contagious. I don't think at this point it's worth doing any more treatments and I am gonna let her do her thing in the tank. I considered euthanizing her to prevent the other fish from catching it - but if they haven't gotten it yet, it won't come back.

I included a picture (that I couldn't upload earlier) of the lesion that fell off in the QT.

I'm now focusing on getting all the pieces for the new tank.