Healthy Angelfish with stuff hanging from his fins - keeps going away and coming back

[sundragon]

I know - I'm going with the best guess
Maracyn Plus, Medicated blood worms and flakes, Melafix (earlier in the year before I posted), Pimafix, allergies, salt, chlorine/chloramine - none seemed to make a difference or was the issue...

I appreciate you checking on the temperature increase for me

Thanks to Google, I have read online a few places that temperature increase:

1. Improves immune response - though if you remember when the water was changed with cooler aged water - the disease reappeared - we assumed the cooler water was bringing it on - using water that wasn't aged and warm from the tap did make a difference, but the disease eventually came back.
2. Warmer water accelerates metabolic rate and aging (4-6 days won't make a huge difference in the life of said fish) at least I don't really care if it helps cure the fish - the alternative is a dead fish
3. 4 degrees increase within the safe range for angels is acceptable - I slowly acclimated the angel to the water temperature. I don't think it will make any negative impact.

I've posed a few more images (to the many already posted)... These are a lot clearer because the water is only tinted from the Furan-2 and there are no plants or substrate to interfere with the image.

Please take a look at the pelvic fins:

Looking good ! Glad to see you reasoned as much as you can, taking all the possible implications to your best ability.

Again, we really dont know what it could be, at least I dont for sure, so hoping for positive outcome!

btw, not that you should change the temp as I wouldnt at this point and it seems you took other factors to determine the temp, something only you can adjust according to your observation/judgement, but do consider in the future that increased temp may affect the activity/longevity of antibiotics. Dont know what few degree will do in your case and am not gonna contact classmates/colleagues who are still in the pharmaceutical industry. I am afraid to hear the usual comments from them such as "Enpough is enough, Dr. Wellfish!

DOnt know where you got the notion that increased temp will improve their immune system but not always true as increased temp is associated with increase in metabilic rate. Generally, Unnecessary increase beyond their optimal range (not that it did in your case) in metabolic rates will weaken fish as more energy is used to keep up with such increase and more wrinkles will appear faster:joke:

 

[sundragon]

Here's a video of the beastie... I was trying to get the pelvic fins on camera so you can see the lesions:

[video=youtube;61bwm42y2SA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61bwm42y2SA[/video]

 

[Cerianthus]

Problem with google allthough very informative, you may only get one side of the story, not a complete one.

Was refering to duration of antibiotic's effectiveness being temp dependent.

Wrinkles was a :joke:.

Stuffs on pelvic fins does not look the same compared to prev pics/vid?? Darn! Wish I could be there to anesthitize the fish with a needle to conduct exam or even perform surgery!!!

At least anal fin look better, I think/hope.

 

[sundragon]

I figured you were poking fun with the wrinkles joke

It's the same stuff - you've just seen the end of it.

It starts like this, then eventually subsides and the white stuff sheds off and disappears. It resolves so fast that i can barely get a picture/video of it.

Problem with google allthough very informative, you may only get one side of the story, not a complete one.

Was refering to duration of antibiotic's effectiveness being temp dependent.

Wrinkles was a :joke:.

Stuffs on pelvic fins does not look the same compared to prev pics/vid?? Darn! Wish I could be there to anesthitize the fish with a needle to conduct exam!!!

At least anal fin look better, I think/hope.

 

[sundragon]

Updates

Update Day Two of QT little beastie

She's hungry, peppy, follows me when I walk past the quarantine. Though the fins exhibit more lesions than I've ever seen... The two that were there yesterday appeared larger than today, so they are getting smaller, usually they disappear and the white stuff takes their place and then that disappears..

1. Either it gets worse before it gets better - Maybe the medication is eradicating the infection and it just looks bad.
2. The move made the fish stressed and the infection is having a party...

I'm not changing any parameters or the treatment... I will continue medicating till the entire treatment has been administered.



Please see video of the beastie and images:
[video=youtube;g_mckI9hoOc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_mckI9hoOc[/video]

 

[Cerianthus]

I wouldnt stop at this stage regardless of its outcome. Just make sure to follow direction including any recommended wc as well as closer attention on any q/t (Confident that youre already tending it well)

Not that I recommend, have you tried to pull/extract them?

Keep an eye on anything that may fall off and visible on the bottom. If there are, Can take out using pipette, a rigid tubing works well, for close up look (magnifying glass/microscope if and when possible).

btw, keeping my fingers crossed for your Beastie

 

[sundragon]

The beastie gobbled up it's evening meal and the white stuff has already started to appear on some of the lesions.

I'm not going to handle the fish or extract the lesion from the fins... What if I catch ICH??

I'll let you know if any drop off - I think they just reabsorb or turn in to that white stuff (puss?)

I'm a little amazed that no one else seems to have seen something like this on their fish

I wouldnt stop at this stage regardless of its outcome. Just make sure to follow direction including any recommended wc as well as closer attention on any q/t (Confident that youre already tending it well)

Not that I recommend, have you tried to pull/extract them?

Keep an eye on anything that may fall off and visible on the bottom. If there are, Can take out using pipette, a rigid tubing works well, for close up look (magnifying glass/microscope if and when possible).

btw, keeping my fingers crossed for your Beastie

 

[Cerianthus]

The beastie gobbled up it's evening meal and the white stuff has already started to appear on some of the lesions.

I'm not going to handle the fish or extract the lesion from the fins... What if I catch ICH??

I'll let you know if any drop off - I think they just reabsorb or turn in to that white stuff (puss?)

I'm a little amazed that no one else seems to have seen something like this on their fish

No worrys as you can always apply salt/heat treatment if you do catch Ich:joke:

I havnt experienced this symptoms in many yrs of fish keeping on any fish but doesnt mean I gave up on the search. Havnt researched like this in ages! Ive been going back to my first guess including Monogeneans and been refreshing tons of facts but to no avail YET. Found few forgotten possibilities/leads but nothing definite.

What baffles me is that it disappears and reappears on its own???

Looking forward to tomorrow' report!

Hope I am not holding onto this thread due to my eagerness/curiosity againt your will/time .

 

[sundragon]

No you're not - I want this to resolve, and I'm happy it goes away on it's own. Updated pictures from this AM. The smaller lesions have dissappeared and there is white stuff in their place. The two larger lesions are still there, they are really dark - Furan-2 tints the water yellow so it could be due to that.
She gobbled up breakfast and seems to be peppy.

Today's prescription requires a 25% water change, the another packet of Furan-2


Images: First one is yesterday, second is this morning:

 

[sundragon]

Update

Summary:
In hindsight - I don't think the quarantine idea was a good choice - I don't think I will do this again if the fish is suffering from a similar issue.
Came home, power brown out blew the fuse and quarantine heater and filter were off - the room is 68 degrees - The angel was still okay and I quickly reset the fuse and the heater/filter were up and running... I fed her and she quickly gobbled up the blood worms.
Her fins are the worst I think I've ever seen...

Why wouldn't I do this again -

1. She's been living with the community of fish for 6+ months and none exhibit the same issues.
2. If the tank were infected with this pathogen - returning her will just reinfect her...
3. If the tank is infected (after 6 months) i should treat the entire tank...
4. The shock of moving her has definitely made her sicker than I've ever seen her (on a side note: temperature obviously makes a difference - cooler brings it on or weakens her immune system - I've now observed this twice - cooler water when it's changed or topped off and now with the cooler tank temperature.)

I hope she pulls through this - considering it was something that wasn't fatal to begin with...

I'm a little disappointed beause setting up the QT was a pain - and treating her has made it worse... I could have left her in the main and treated the main, like I did in the past - or just left it alone and let it go away on it's own.

I have one more day of Furan-2 before the box instructions say the treatment is done - I can extend it another 2 days till 6 - I'm still considering this, but by now there should have been a marked improvement.

Does anyone know a vet that would take images and the last 3 months of observations and give me a better guess as to what this is?

Lastly - if this treatment proves to be futile - she's going back in the main - I'm done treating it... I'm not going to subject her to a small 10 gallon QT and more medicine. This infection comes and goes on it's own - at least it's a lot happier in the QT and the fish will deal with it until it dies - It's now resisted Maracyn Plus, Furan-2, Pimafix and Melafix...