Home depot bulb or lfs bulb?

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Byron Amazonas

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To your initial question on the tubes, yes and no. I have done considerable experimenting over 15 years with T8 tubes. As someone mentioned, it is the spectrum or wavelengths that matter, plus of course the intensity.

I currently use the 48-inch tubes from Home Depot and similar stores on my dual-tube tanks, and have for years. I only use 6500K tubes. These are highest in the red, blue and green wavelengths, and studies have shown they do promote a better response in plants. I have used Sylvania, Phillips and GE. Just as long as they are the enhanced daylight (or whatever name each manufacturer gives them) with 6500K.

This is not to say that tubes in the warmer ranges of 5000K won't work, they will, but plant response will be slower. And the problem with this is that it can cause algae. Getting the balance between intensity and duration, for the plants in the aquarium, plus balancing the nutrients is the key.

On my single tube tanks i only use Life-Glo 6700K or ZooMed UltraSun 6500K. These two do put out more light intensity than the same-sized 6500K tubes of GE, etc. They are more expensive, but with only one tube over the tank it makes a big difference. With two tubes over the larger tanks, this doesn't seem to matter, as I have used both Life-Glo and the cheaper with no difference I could see over periods of years.

I'll respond to your algae issue in another post.

Byron.
 

Byron Amazonas

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Well currently my lights are on for longer then previously, this is a recent change, because one of the guys at my LFS say maybe lengthening the photo period might help since my watts are lower, not really seeing any improvement though and I'm not running carbon at all. All my filters are completely biological. Does carbon help with algae?
This was not good advice. Plants will only photosynthesize if they have sufficient light intensity to drive photosynthesis, and this does vary for the species. If the intensity is insufficient, lengthening the duration does not help at all, but algae will be even worse because it is not so fussy.

Things can vary from aquarium to aquarium, even if everything (lighting, fish load, feeding, ferts) are basically the same. Once you find the balance, you're set. But it can go off for many reasons, such as older tubes (they lose intensity as they burn), additional ambient daylight in the summer, changing tubes, etc.
 

Byron Amazonas

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Funny you should mention algae bloom, because I am facing that issue in my 75. That's not really why I asked, but I will gladly jump off of that. I have just been told by different people that the expensive bulbs have a wider spectrum, even though most are labeled like 6500k cool white, which is exactly what the home depot ones are labeled as. In my 75g, I have a 40 watt hood, running two 32 watt 5000k bulbs as well as a 20 watt hood over half of the tank because it was a spare. I have 10 small amazon swords, 1 larger one, and a few java ferns on some rocks. The large sword is always throwing out new leafs, the others however hardly have time to put out a new one before algae over takes it. Part of the reason the swords may be small is because I don't use root ferts, but somehow the big one is always growing more leaves. Feeding them is fairly simple, I have a reverse ug filter system running so I can blow ferts under there for them, the root tabs are just kinda expensive though, 8 tabs for $10 to 10 tabs for $10, so I haven't been using them. This was my first planted tank so it's completely a learning experience. I think what I may do eventually is go to home depot and get a 4 bulb t8 "shop light" and use that. Right now, with just the hood I have, I'm getting about .85 wpg, which most likely is part of my algae issues. If I get the 4 bulb it will put me at 1.7 which is better obviously. In my 29g, I put a layer of flourish and then a layer of top gravel. I pulled one of the smaller swords, put it in there, picked up some wysteria, and am going to be bringing home some java ferns from my 10g at work that has a plant that is always growing baby ones. I will also be adding dwarf hair grass once all the rest of the plants are in. I want to make sure I have adequate lighting for them as right now the bulb in there is old and I'm averaging .67 wpg. It's only a 1 bulb hood though so I am constrained to whatever fits in there.
There are a couple issues here. First, lighting intensity. As tubes burn, they lose intensity, quite fast actually. T8 tubes need replacing about every 12 months. If you have two tubes over the tank, you can stagger this which is a bit better, replacing one say in January and the other in July; this means you keep a slightly better consistency, rather than replacing both tubes every January.

Watts per gallon is not a reliable guide any longer, with all the different lighting plus the better-made tubes. And this is where the manufacturer can make some difference, as i noted in my earlier reply. The Life-Glo emits double the light intensity of the same-sized GE Daylight.

Swords (Echinodorus species) are heavy feeders. Substrate tabs will always mean better growth, but liquid fertilizer is still needed because some nutrients are only taken up via the leaves, not the roots. I have grown swords fine with just liquid, but when i also use tabs for the large species they certainly grow larger and faster. Light needs to be moderate for the green-leaf species; red-leaf species need more intensity.

Algae occurs problematically when the light and nutrients are not sufficient for the plants. We can expand this if you ask.

Hoe this is of some help.

Byron.
 

ZorroNet

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Hoe this is of some help.
No name calling, Byron! (My inner 6th grader wouldn't let this pass me by.)

M00n, if you want to know anything about aquatic botany, Byron is the man! Read up :)
 

M00n3at3r

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There are a couple issues here. First, lighting intensity. As tubes burn, they lose intensity, quite fast actually. T8 tubes need replacing about every 12 months. If you have two tubes over the tank, you can stagger this which is a bit better, replacing one say in January and the other in July; this means you keep a slightly better consistency, rather than replacing both tubes every January.

Watts per gallon is not a reliable guide any longer, with all the different lighting plus the better-made tubes. And this is where the manufacturer can make some difference, as i noted in my earlier reply. The Life-Glo emits double the light intensity of the same-sized GE Daylight.

Swords (Echinodorus species) are heavy feeders. Substrate tabs will always mean better growth, but liquid fertilizer is still needed because some nutrients are only taken up via the leaves, not the roots. I have grown swords fine with just liquid, but when i also use tabs for the large species they certainly grow larger and faster. Light needs to be moderate for the green-leaf species; red-leaf species need more intensity.

Algae occurs problematically when the light and nutrients are not sufficient for the plants. We can expand this if you ask.

Hoe this is of some help.

Byron.
Yeah Byron, I would love some help. I'm currently dealing with green dust, a small amount of green hair, and red algae on all of my plant's leaves. I think I said before, but I have 10 small amazon swords and 1 larger one, plus a few java ferns. I have the light on a timer going on at 12pm and off at 11pm. I just adjusted that today and am currently doing a black out to try and undo my mistake of leaving the light on. That just made it worse.

Now the bulbs I have in there are 5000k ge or phillips, but I do have a pair of 6500k I can put in if you think that it would be more beneficial. I Dose with flourish, however I have been inconsistent with dosing. That's really it. I do weekly water changes, monitor the levels (ph, nitrates, trites, ammonia). To answer a question previously asked, the larger plant is on the opposite side of the tank from the output of one of my canisters. I have two canisters and the other blows the opposite direction, so logically speaking that should mean that the other plants on the opposite side are getting relatively the same amount of food and poo. WORK YOUR MAGIC BYRON!!! :) Your help truly is appreciated. On a side note, I'm not running carbon at all and I am running phos-zorb in both of my canisters which hasn't really seemed to do much for algae.


ps. I read freezing a mix of water and liquid ferts was a good solution to root tabs? Like making ice cubes and putting them in the substrate near it. Thoughts?
 
Last edited:

Byron Amazonas

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Yeah Byron, I would love some help. I'm currently dealing with green dust, a small amount of green hair, and red algae on all of my plant's leaves. I think I said before, but I have 10 small amazon swords and 1 larger one, plus a few java ferns. I have the light on a timer going on at 12pm and off at 11pm. I just adjusted that today and am currently doing a black out to try and undo my mistake of leaving the light on. That just made it worse.

Now the bulbs I have in there are 5000k ge or phillips, but I do have a pair of 6500k I can put in if you think that it would be more beneficial. I Dose with flourish, however I have been inconsistent with dosing. That's really it. I do weekly water changes, monitor the levels (ph, nitrates, trites, ammonia). To answer a question previously asked, the larger plant is on the opposite side of the tank from the output of one of my canisters. I have two canisters and the other blows the opposite direction, so logically speaking that should mean that the other plants on the opposite side are getting relatively the same amount of food and poo. WORK YOUR MAGIC BYRON!!! :) Your help truly is appreciated. On a side note, I'm not running carbon at all and I am running phos-zorb in both of my canisters which hasn't really seemed to do much for algae.


ps. I read freezing a mix of water and liquid ferts was a good solution to root tabs? Like making ice cubes and putting them in the substrate near it. Thoughts?
I'll do my best to offer some assistance. First on the last item, freezing liquid ferts. This would not help much, as the fertilizer would quickly enter the water column the same as if you add it normally. The substrate tabs are made to very slowly release nutrients; I use Seachem's Flourish Tabs which last 3-4 months, and I replace them every three months and have noticed quite a difference in swords and Aponogeton and red tiger lotus; these are the only plants i use tabs with, one close to each plant or sometimes between two. I have not tried the API tabs, but several other quarists have told me they are not as good and make a real mess if disturbed.

I would not use phos-zorb, nor any other chemical media. These remove nutrients that are often crucial to plants (activated carbon for instance removes DOC (dissolved organic carbon) and this is a good source of the essential nutrient carbon==just mention as an example, I realize you said you are not using it). Phosphorus is also needed for plants--in fact it is one of the macro-nutrients, vital for root development, energy transfer, and genetic compounds and enzymes; the old adage that phosphates are the cause of algae is rather irrelevant today (if it ever was). The API site says this product removes other substances harmful to plants, without saying what they might be. I don't use any of these products, and I'm not aware of any such substances harming my plants, they grow like weeds.

To your light. I assume this is the 75g tank, so 4 feet in length; and you have two 48-inch T8 tubes. This is close to my 70g, yours is probably an inch or two taller. I have two 48-inch 6500K tubes, and the plants are thriving. See attached photo. Eight hour duration, no more or brush algae increases. You will see the surface is thick with floating plants, Frogbit in this particular tank; I'm sure I would have to decrease the duration if the floaters were not there. The GE 6500K daylight tube is ideal, as is the Phillips 6500K. You can have one 6500K and one 5000K if you like, it will be a warmer white. This could help some plants, but not swords, so if it were me I would get two 6500K. They will be 32w. Replace every 12 months.

Flourish Comprehensive is a very good "complete" fertilizer. I use it once a week, immediately after the 50% water change. You don't mention the volume, but water changes will help to inhibit algae, so do half the tank weekly. Dose Flourish after. What is your GH? This is important, if it is very soft you may need more calcium/magnesium/potassium/manganese than Flourish Comp has. I have also had good luck dosing Flourish Trace once, at the same time. But my tap water is near-zero hardness and yours may be sufficient not to bother.

If these swords are the common species Echinodorus bleherae (so-called, it is actually E. greisbachii, but that is another story), substrate tabs will make a real difference. And I would get some floating plants. Water Sprite is my favourite, but Frogbit will work, as will Water Lettuce. Not everyone has good luck with Frogbit, mine is hit and miss because it turned out to be the temperate species, not the tropical, so it goes through significant periods of die-back and rest two or three times a year.

What is the pH? And nitrate? Since you test, these may tell me something. And the GH (you can get this from the water supply folks, don't waste money on a test kit)?

Another thing occurs to me, and that is current. None of these plants like strong currents; if the plants are moving (except those right next to the filter return) it is too strong. Fast water flow pushes the nutrients in the water past the leaves before plants can assimilate them. Carbon for instance takes four times longer in water than in air to be taken up by plant leaves.

Byron.

70g Oct 17-13.JPG
 

M00n3at3r

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I'll do my best to offer some assistance. First on the last item, freezing liquid ferts. This would not help much, as the fertilizer would quickly enter the water column the same as if you add it normally. The substrate tabs are made to very slowly release nutrients; I use Seachem's Flourish Tabs which last 3-4 months, and I replace them every three months and have noticed quite a difference in swords and Aponogeton and red tiger lotus; these are the only plants i use tabs with, one close to each plant or sometimes between two. I have not tried the API tabs, but several other quarists have told me they are not as good and make a real mess if disturbed.

I would not use phos-zorb, nor any other chemical media. These remove nutrients that are often crucial to plants (activated carbon for instance removes DOC (dissolved organic carbon) and this is a good source of the essential nutrient carbon==just mention as an example, I realize you said you are not using it). Phosphorus is also needed for plants--in fact it is one of the macro-nutrients, vital for root development, energy transfer, and genetic compounds and enzymes; the old adage that phosphates are the cause of algae is rather irrelevant today (if it ever was). The API site says this product removes other substances harmful to plants, without saying what they might be. I don't use any of these products, and I'm not aware of any such substances harming my plants, they grow like weeds.

To your light. I assume this is the 75g tank, so 4 feet in length; and you have two 48-inch T8 tubes. This is close to my 70g, yours is probably an inch or two taller. I have two 48-inch 6500K tubes, and the plants are thriving. See attached photo. Eight hour duration, no more or brush algae increases. You will see the surface is thick with floating plants, Frogbit in this particular tank; I'm sure I would have to decrease the duration if the floaters were not there. The GE 6500K daylight tube is ideal, as is the Phillips 6500K. You can have one 6500K and one 5000K if you like, it will be a warmer white. This could help some plants, but not swords, so if it were me I would get two 6500K. They will be 32w. Replace every 12 months.

Flourish Comprehensive is a very good "complete" fertilizer. I use it once a week, immediately after the 50% water change. You don't mention the volume, but water changes will help to inhibit algae, so do half the tank weekly. Dose Flourish after. What is your GH? This is important, if it is very soft you may need more calcium/magnesium/potassium/manganese than Flourish Comp has. I have also had good luck dosing Flourish Trace once, at the same time. But my tap water is near-zero hardness and yours may be sufficient not to bother.

If these swords are the common species Echinodorus bleherae (so-called, it is actually E. greisbachii, but that is another story), substrate tabs will make a real difference. And I would get some floating plants. Water Sprite is my favourite, but Frogbit will work, as will Water Lettuce. Not everyone has good luck with Frogbit, mine is hit and miss because it turned out to be the temperate species, not the tropical, so it goes through significant periods of die-back and rest two or three times a year.

What is the pH? And nitrate? Since you test, these may tell me something. And the GH (you can get this from the water supply folks, don't waste money on a test kit)?

Another thing occurs to me, and that is current. None of these plants like strong currents; if the plants are moving (except those right next to the filter return) it is too strong. Fast water flow pushes the nutrients in the water past the leaves before plants can assimilate them. Carbon for instance takes four times longer in water than in air to be taken up by plant leaves.

Byron.

Alrighty, so this is gonna take me a bit so I'll go back and forth and get the list done. I really like that frogbit in yours, it looks very nice. I was considering floating wysteria, I read it was good at absorbing extra nutrients. That's the one with the lacy roots coming down? For the water changes, I do about a third of the tank. with 75 gallons, it's always quite the chore, refilling. The gh is registering 35.8ppm. I had one of the drip kits. Ph is 7.6-7.8 and nitrate is at 0ppm. The ph is a little higher then normal because I haven't done a water change in 2 weeks. Things have been pretty busy around my house. There is a little current on the bottom. I had both of the outputs of my canisters pointed down in an attempt to keep some of the junk off the bottom.

I think that's everything you asked for. Let me know!
 

Byron Amazonas

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Alrighty, so this is gonna take me a bit so I'll go back and forth and get the list done. I really like that frogbit in yours, it looks very nice. I was considering floating wysteria, I read it was good at absorbing extra nutrients. That's the one with the lacy roots coming down? For the water changes, I do about a third of the tank. with 75 gallons, it's always quite the chore, refilling. The gh is registering 35.8ppm. I had one of the drip kits. Ph is 7.6-7.8 and nitrate is at 0ppm. The ph is a little higher then normal because I haven't done a water change in 2 weeks. Things have been pretty busy around my house. There is a little current on the bottom. I had both of the outputs of my canisters pointed down in an attempt to keep some of the junk off the bottom.

I think that's everything you asked for. Let me know!
Now we're getting somewhere.

Wisteria (the stem plant Hygrophila difformis) can work floating, but in your case I would not (due to low GH). A better stem plant for floating is Brazilian Pennywort (Hydrocotyle leucocephala); the leaves spread laterally on the surface while the fine roots dangle from each leaf node. If you can't find Water Sprite, this stem plant is good.

For water changes on larger tanks like this one, a "python" is best. I think the Aqueon model is better made (the faucet attachment, my Python broke three times) than the original "Python," but either will work. It attaches to the faucet (you need a threaded faucet, I use my laundry sink on which I put a faucet with threads). Makes water changes a breeze.

I would confirm the GH with your municipal water supply people (this may be indicated on their website). If it really is 35-36 ppm, that equates to 2 dGH which is very soft. My water is even softer, around 7 ppm or less than 1 dGH. This may be one issue with the swords. But before suggesting another additive (I use Seachem's Equilibrium to raise my GH in two tanks to 4 or 5 dGH, solely for the large swords which otherwise fail) I would change the light, be regular with Flourish Comprehensive, and see how this works. Give changes 4-5 weeks to allow them to take effect on plant growth. You might go to twice weekly for Flourish Comp, the second dose three days after the first following the water change. Just be careful; this can cause excess algae. Each tank is biologically unique. Of my 7, only one, the 90g, had an algae increase with a second dose weekly; I got around this by using Flourish Trace with the Comp together, once.

The pH should lower naturally, not rise, so that is a bit confusing. Was this the tank with Eco-Complete? That may explain it. My pH is down around 6, lower in some tanks. With such a low GH and comparable KH, it easily lowers as the tank matures. Leaving the substrate untouched will help here.

Try to be regular with water changes. I understand other things get in the way, but this really is important for fish more than plants. Stability is more likely with significant regular water changes.

Byron.
 

M00n3at3r

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Now we're getting somewhere.

Wisteria (the stem plant Hygrophila difformis) can work floating, but in your case I would not (due to low GH). A better stem plant for floating is Brazilian Pennywort (Hydrocotyle leucocephala); the leaves spread laterally on the surface while the fine roots dangle from each leaf node. If you can't find Water Sprite, this stem plant is good.

For water changes on larger tanks like this one, a "python" is best. I think the Aqueon model is better made (the faucet attachment, my Python broke three times) than the original "Python," but either will work. It attaches to the faucet (you need a threaded faucet, I use my laundry sink on which I put a faucet with threads). Makes water changes a breeze.

I would confirm the GH with your municipal water supply people (this may be indicated on their website). If it really is 35-36 ppm, that equates to 2 dGH which is very soft. My water is even softer, around 7 ppm or less than 1 dGH. This may be one issue with the swords. But before suggesting another additive (I use Seachem's Equilibrium to raise my GH in two tanks to 4 or 5 dGH, solely for the large swords which otherwise fail) I would change the light, be regular with Flourish Comprehensive, and see how this works. Give changes 4-5 weeks to allow them to take effect on plant growth. You might go to twice weekly for Flourish Comp, the second dose three days after the first following the water change. Just be careful; this can cause excess algae. Each tank is biologically unique. Of my 7, only one, the 90g, had an algae increase with a second dose weekly; I got around this by using Flourish Trace with the Comp together, once.

The pH should lower naturally, not rise, so that is a bit confusing. Was this the tank with Eco-Complete? That may explain it. My pH is down around 6, lower in some tanks. With such a low GH and comparable KH, it easily lowers as the tank matures. Leaving the substrate untouched will help here.

Try to be regular with water changes. I understand other things get in the way, but this really is important for fish more than plants. Stability is more likely with significant regular water changes.

Byron.
Let's see, where to start. The python sounds like a good idea, I would have to find a way to connect it to the bathroom sink as that's the closest source of water. As for the pH and the water, I guess I was incorrect about what happened with old fish water. And we are on well so we don't have "people" I can test it again, Gh and kh if you want. I bought the kit and then never used it. I can change the bulbs once I'm done with the blackout. I'm trying to get some of it under control.
 

Byron Amazonas

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Let's see, where to start. The python sounds like a good idea, I would have to find a way to connect it to the bathroom sink as that's the closest source of water. As for the pH and the water, I guess I was incorrect about what happened with old fish water. And we are on well so we don't have "people" I can test it again, Gh and kh if you want. I bought the kit and then never used it. I can change the bulbs once I'm done with the blackout. I'm trying to get some of it under control.
Yes, test the GH and KH of the source water (well here). I have the API test kit, it seems to last a while. And the pH of just the well water too; shake the water vigorously before testing pH just to outgas any CO2 there might be, as this affects pH. We don't need to do this in the aquarium, because we want to know the actual pH, but any CO2 in the source water will outgas and the pH will be different. I am going to surmise that it may be lower than the tank, but we'll see.

The Python needs a threaded faucet. You need to be able to screw it on either externally (like a garden hose tap) or internally (if there are threads up inside the faucet).

We progress bit by bit.:clap:

Byron.
 
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