I'll try to refer to them differently from now on b/c what y'all have said makes sense...it's now referred to as "Crypt" when I speak of it.
ICK...where does it come from/incubation period???
- Thread starter redrf900
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I don't particularly feel like hijacking this thread, but my point was that, for many purposes, the two are analagous. Homologous, even. They share trophont, tomont, and theront stages. The point in their life cycles in which they are treatable is the same.
Obviously, there are differences with regard to their adaptation to marine vs FW environments. The treatments of choice are also different.
With regard to the otter analogy, there is a lot of basic otter biology that is shared between the two. Some of it might be relevant if one has a tank infested with otters.
I have belabored this quite enough. Unless I'm missing something, I haven't seen anything in this thread or the Skeptical Aquarist that contradicts my statement about "essentially the same life cycle." But this thread was about FW ich.
Obviously, there are differences with regard to their adaptation to marine vs FW environments. The treatments of choice are also different.
With regard to the otter analogy, there is a lot of basic otter biology that is shared between the two. Some of it might be relevant if one has a tank infested with otters.
I have belabored this quite enough. Unless I'm missing something, I haven't seen anything in this thread or the Skeptical Aquarist that contradicts my statement about "essentially the same life cycle." But this thread was about FW ich.
I don't have firsthand experience with the parasitic marine ciliate Cryptocaryon irritans, but a major difference between it and the parasitic freshwater ciliate Ichthyophthirius multifiliss in my reading is that it can remain in its encysted, sporulating life-stage-- the tomont-- for weeks and weeks. (Was that the cryptic "seed" or carya of its naming? I don't know.)
Ich remains cryptic, or sub-clinical, as long as the trophonts are invisibly attached to the exposed, sensitive gill lamellae. When the infestation grows enough that trophonts are visible on fins (first), and mucus-protected outer skin (typically last of all), we recognize the infestation with the naked eye.
Ich remains cryptic, or sub-clinical, as long as the trophonts are invisibly attached to the exposed, sensitive gill lamellae. When the infestation grows enough that trophonts are visible on fins (first), and mucus-protected outer skin (typically last of all), we recognize the infestation with the naked eye.
The fact that both are protzoans and share life cycle stages does not at all mean the tank handling is the same. Just the fact that the normal environment for one if full seawater and the other is quite sensitive to salt is more than a trivial difference. One is quite easy to clear and cure with proper handling without medication, the other not so simple.
Joe - I'm picking on you today - but "dormant" in biology has meaning, refering to a state which Ich is incabable of achieving. I personally do not believe that we should use language known to be incorrect, and I personally will never do so intentionally. So, IMHO, "dormant" is a poor and misleading way to explain it.
Much, much more of the real biology of aquaria is coming to be known. Misguiding newcomers is not the way to develop their knowledge or understanding. That to me smacks of marketing, which should never be confused with teaching..
Much, much more of the real biology of aquaria is coming to be known. Misguiding newcomers is not the way to develop their knowledge or understanding. That to me smacks of marketing, which should never be confused with teaching..
Simple is good, but only if it is true and valid. If it is false, it is misleading and causes confusion.
I give. My point was more of a semantic issue, that probably should have been a "compare and contrast ich and cryptocaryon" thread than taking up space here.
I can't find anything at home here about a truly dormant stage in crytpocaryon, However, just like ich, its time is limited off the host. 2 weeks max. I'll check at work this pm.
I got a chuckle out of this when I was re-reading Martin Moe's Marine Aquarium Reference:
The ciliate, Ichthyophthirius multifilis, causes the fearsome "ich" that is the freshwater counterpart of Cryptocaryon irritans." I think the world of Martin Moe, but it does seem silly after this discussion.
I can't find anything at home here about a truly dormant stage in crytpocaryon, However, just like ich, its time is limited off the host. 2 weeks max. I'll check at work this pm.
I got a chuckle out of this when I was re-reading Martin Moe's Marine Aquarium Reference:
The ciliate, Ichthyophthirius multifilis, causes the fearsome "ich" that is the freshwater counterpart of Cryptocaryon irritans." I think the world of Martin Moe, but it does seem silly after this discussion.
Joe, these distinctions of words only mean something-- as in this "dormant" thing-- when casual informal usage leads to fruitless and unnecessary struggles. Example: people who think Ich lurks dormant away from its host take precautions to equalize travelling water and tank water to two degrees, when if they understood the life-cycle, they'd be using their energy in quarantining instead.
