ICK...where does it come from/incubation period???

[125gJoe]

Originally posted by wetmanNY
Joe, these distinctions of words....... Example: people who think Ich lurks dormant away from its host take precautions to equalize travelling water and tank water to two degrees, when if they understood the life-cycle, they'd be using their energy in quarantining instead.

So, in 'other words' using water for changes at very close temperatures is an unnecessary precaution and ignore it?? That's misleading when I heard and read over and over again the importance of it. It is a stress and Ich issue without a doubt. Can Ich be introduced with 'new' plants? I would say it's good not to aggravated a disease with unnecessary stress. Ich does have a life-cycle. Can most aquarists really believe their tanks are 100% free of Ich?

There's the "we can agree to disagree" statement that is needed here, when it applies to water temps and stress.

Next, I just learned that there "Is" a certain amount of "immunity" in "LFS" fish when it comes to "Ich" ... This "immunity" is so very close to appearing like "dormancy" -- of course not "technically" the exact same thing... I do stand corrected on "dormancy".

It wasn't me that stated quarrantining is not a good idea.
It is a good practice. Realistically, not all do it.

I will always stand by what I say about water changes, and people should not be careless and get a thermometer out to check that water changes are kept very close in temperature. There's no waste of energy and time when it comes to that...

 

[125gJoe]

Originally posted by wetmanNY
...-- when casual informal usage leads to fruitless .....

And--
I will try and be 'less casual' and 'not as informal'. (Ooops, 'more formal')


Now - how about any truth to some fish having a "degree of immunity" and not as readily show signs of Ich?


I'm curiuos as if this is "bogus"....

(darn, I'm being informal again! ) ,....what to do... that word bogus just doesn't "work"..

 

[ChilDawg]

Mendacious?

 

[RTR]

"Bogus" is fully valid as a word and quite clear in meaning - probably more than then the phrase "snake oil" that I use for bogus products in discussion routinely.

Post-infection immunity does exist to greater or lesser degree in fish. That is real and valid. Native or natural immunity does also exist. Also real and valid. Most folks are aware that there are wide variations in which fish get Ich most often or first - Clown Loaches are notoriously susceptible. So there are variations between types/species of fish as well as within a species among individuals. As with other infectious processes, stress can reduce immunity.

I believe wetman's point was on relative importance of aquarium practices. Being anal about water temperature during a routine tank partial may or or may not be justified. If the tank is at 76F (and if that figure is accurate) and the change water is at 80F, in a 25% partial, the differential in the two will result in an increase in the tank of one degree F. Where is the trauma? There is none IMHO and IME. But this does not mean you can or should be sloppy - it means you have to know the relative importance of the factors involved.

When inroducing new fish to a tank, QT is at least a couple of orders of magnitude ahead of exact temperature match, pH match is trivial, TDS match is much less trivial - but how many folk do you know who even know what TDS is, much less test for it? Folk who follow rote instructions without understanding what or why they are doing this are more likely to get into hot water than someone with some understanding of what factors get what weight and why, and then adapting their techniques to fit that knowledge.

Does that help clarify? Understanding of the process and its implications lift practices from rote and myth/folklore to reality. Then you are using "best availbale practice" techniques instead of comforting but baseless ritual. There is no magic to keeping a fish tank, but there is one heck of a lot of biology - not all of it perfectly undertood, but much more of it known than a couple of decades ago, and whole orders of magnitude more than when I started this hobby.

 

[mogurnda]

Post deleted. Seemed too negative.

Basically, I agree that people should be careful with their wording, and try to be thorough in their explanations. Did I say dinoflagellate?