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Byron Amazonas

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Jul 22, 2013
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Would it be overkill if I used a base of this organic potting soil and then topped it with this substrate?
Just a caution here. If you are still thinking moderate light and no CO2, I can assure you that a plain sand or fine gravel substrate is more than adequate. There will be no real benefit to these other substrates. Allow me to explain.

Plants will grow fine in any substrate, provided it is not too dense (like mud) or the opposite, too "open" as in larger gravel. I have used fine gravel, pea gravel and play sand. The pea gravel was large enough that I did see some slight problem for the plants, but otherwise, didn't matter. Aquatic plants, like terrestrial for that matter, can only take up nutrients from the water via the roots and the leaves. Any minerals in the substrate material must leech into the water for the plant roots to assimilate them. This is why adding nutrients to the water column work just as well in terms of providing nutrients. The water flows down through the substrate (there is a natural flow in nature and the aquarium) carrying nutrients which are then taken up via the plant roots. Some nutrients are primarily taken up via the leaves. So adding nutrients to the water column does cover all bases.

Now, having said that, adding nutrients directly to the substrate can quicken this assimilation in some cases. Substrate tabs achieve this the same. Given the higher cost of enriched substrates, I do not myself see the benefit.

As for soil, the benefit here is in CO2. The organics in the soil are high, and bacteria establish to break them down, producing CO2 in the process. I mentioned this as the major source of CO2 previously. And in any substrate, this is going to occur, if we leave it alone; too frequent or deep cleaning is detrimental to this, obviously, as it is removing the organics. Soil contains high organics, so there is an initial release of lots of CO2. However, after about a year, any substrate will be of equal value in this. So the benefit of soil is initially. But with this there are other issues as the other member mentioned, like ammonia, unstable water conditions, etc. There are many soil-based planted tank aquarists who seriously suggest setting up a tank with soil and not adding fish for six months, solely because of this fluctuation. I have never had problems setting up new tanks with clean fine gravel or play sand; my plants take off after a couple weeks, and water conditions are relatively stable by comparison. As was said earlier in another's post, do your research and decide what you want before starting out. It can be as simple or as complex as you make it.

Byron.
 

mgm007

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Jun 21, 2014
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It occurred to me today that I haven't asked anything about filtration. I currently use the Aqueon Quiet Pro 30 with the standard refill cartridges. Should I continue to do so after the tank has been planted? What about my weekly water changes of ~20%? Should those continue with that amount & frequency?
 

HybridHerp

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Jun 8, 2012
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Would it be overkill if I used a base of this organic potting soil and then topped it with this substrate?
Eco complete is fine. It doesn't actually have nutrients though it just stores them well.

Get organic potting MIX. Or mineralized topsoil. Big difference.

Soil has cow manure which is going to cause issues as it breaks down, it's dangerously strong in the ammonia department. Potting mix uses turkey or chicken poop which is better for our enclosed environment.

Also, the satellite fixture someone was thinking of is the satellite plus. How tall is your tank again?


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Byron Amazonas

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Jul 22, 2013
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It occurred to me today that I haven't asked anything about filtration. I currently use the Aqueon Quiet Pro 30 with the standard refill cartridges. Should I continue to do so after the tank has been planted? What about my weekly water changes of ~20%? Should those continue with that amount & frequency?
I have not used this filter, but I just did a quick check online and I can't see any issues except for the carbon cartridges. You do not want any form of chemical filtration in a planted tank, as this will remove certain nutrients the plants need. Here is another way to lose CO2, as carbon will remove dissolved organic carbon which is another source of carbon for plants. IF the tank is quite cloudy when set up, I would run the filter with the cartridge for a few days to clear the tank initially, then remove the cartridge; you can replace this space with foam or sponge, or leave it empty. Foam, pads, sponge, bio media, etc are all fine.

Water changes should be more substantial than only 20%. No less than 30% but closer to 50% is better. I do 50% every week and have for years now. The reaction of the fish following every water change is proof positive that they make a big difference to the health of the fish and the aquarium.

I see Eco-Complete mentioned; this is too rough for substrate fish. Stay with your sand idea, especially if you intend corys or loaches, as these naturally dig into the substrate.

Byron.
 

mgm007

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Jun 21, 2014
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Eco complete is fine. It doesn't actually have nutrients though it just stores them well.
Get organic potting MIX. Or mineralized topsoil. Big difference.
Soil has cow manure which is going to cause issues as it breaks down, it's dangerously strong in the ammonia department. Potting mix uses turkey or chicken poop which is better for our enclosed environment.
Also, the satellite fixture someone was thinking of is the satellite plus. How tall is your tank again?
How about this for an organic potting mix?

I believe I found the light you're talking about. Is this it? My tank is 25" high but I was planning on around 3 inches of substrate to help shorten it a bit so let's call it 22".
 

mgm007

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Jun 21, 2014
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I have not used this filter, but I just did a quick check online and I can't see any issues except for the carbon cartridges. You do not want any form of chemical filtration in a planted tank, as this will remove certain nutrients the plants need. Here is another way to lose CO2, as carbon will remove dissolved organic carbon which is another source of carbon for plants. IF the tank is quite cloudy when set up, I would run the filter with the cartridge for a few days to clear the tank initially, then remove the cartridge; you can replace this space with foam or sponge, or leave it empty. Foam, pads, sponge, bio media, etc are all fine.

Water changes should be more substantial than only 20%. No less than 30% but closer to 50% is better. I do 50% every week and have for years now. The reaction of the fish following every water change is proof positive that they make a big difference to the health of the fish and the aquarium.

I see Eco-Complete mentioned; this is too rough for substrate fish. Stay with your sand idea, especially if you intend corys or loaches, as these naturally dig into the substrate.

Byron.
Thanks Byron. I'll increase the amount of the water changes and grab a piece of foam to replace the carbon cartridges. I don't have any substrate fish. I have 8 cardinal tetras, 2 shrimp, 2 glow tetras and a pleco.
 

HybridHerp

AC Members
Jun 8, 2012
110
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16
New York (Long Island)
How about this for an organic potting mix?

I believe I found the light you're talking about. Is this it? My tank is 25" high but I was planning on around 3 inches of substrate to help shorten it a bit so let's call it 22".
That's the dirt I've used so yah you're good.

Your tank is tall though, that satellite plus will be kinda expensive while not giving you more than low light.

Are you wanting to go LED or are you cool with whatever?


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mgm007

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Jun 21, 2014
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I want to go with whatever light will be the best for the plants. I'm not tied to any particular type of light but I also don't want to spend a few hundred dollars on a light either :).

BTW, where are you on Long Island? That's where I am as well. Huntington.
 

mgm007

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Jun 21, 2014
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Would either of these be better choices?

LED

T5

I'd prefer the LED since it ends up being cheaper than the T5 (I'd have to spend another $30 on bulbs for the T5). Also, the LED claims to be 50% brighter than T5HO lamps.
 

Byron Amazonas

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Jul 22, 2013
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Would either of these be better choices?

LED

T5

I'd prefer the LED since it ends up being cheaper than the T5 (I'd have to spend another $30 on bulbs for the T5). Also, the LED claims to be 50% brighter than T5HO lamps.
The T5 will be way too much light; you will have an algae soup. To put this in perspective, this fixture has two tubes; if you could get it with just one tube, it would be OK, just about exactly right in fact. But usually the dual-tube fixtures will not light unless both tubes are in and burning, so you can't remove one for example (unfortunately).

The LED I am not sure of. They say it is "50% brighter than T5 HO" and if I read that correctly, this is even more light, unless they mean it is half the T5 HO light. Maybe someone else knows which is correct. If the latter, that would work, but if the former, even worse than the T5. I suspect it is the former, as on their website they suggest this light will work for soft corals, and they need more light. T5 HO was actually designed specifically for marine tanks with corals as it gives considerably more light than the T8 tubes so fewer tubes are needed.

Byron.
 
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