New Paludarium Questions

[tylerk]

Well, I finally got everything settled how I like it for the time being.

I decided to add a bit of water back to have it at about a foot deep for the fish. Everything in it is still all my plastics and the standard gravel. I hope to move to live plants when I have a bit more of a consistent place to keep it.

The first and second photos are essentially the same - full view of tank - but the first has flash, second doesn't and I wasn't sure which would look better on this. The third and fourth are the left waterfall and top of the tank and right waterfall and top of the tank and the 5th is of the two happy (and full) little guys. I decided to put the two main platforms sections on the two sides/back corners and then a standing tree decoration in the middle with sturdy plastic plants stuck along the back. It seems to be working out great and I might add a newt to the mix since the toads are not very interested in the water. I know there are reasons not to mix them, but my local petshop had them in the same aquarium, so I figure it might be an option later on.

Let's hear the criticisms and comments that will help make this even more of a home for them.

Oh, and the last picture shows one of my two newly titled "Guardians of Waterland". They don't guard so much and as stalk it whenever they get the chance...

Hope you like and thanks again for all the help!

 

[Nora]

Very pretty, but awful deep for the FBT's to deal with I think. With that type of set up though you have really limited where the toads can be by having the water so very deep, especially without sloping sides.

Some good FBT info:
http://www.amphibiancare.com/frogs/caresheets/firebelliedtoad.html ....recommends 3 inch, but does state a bit deeper is ok.

http://talkto.thefrog.org/index.php?action=vthread&forum=14&topic=1549
.... Same author as above but a specific depth max of 5 inches & Devon knows his amphibians

http://exoticpets.about.com/cs/frogsandtoads/a/orientalfbtoads.htm
.... 2-4 inch recommendation

http://redtailboa.net/forums/amphibian/32967-fire-belly-toad-care-sheet.html ....another shallow suggestion

It is surely possible for many animals to live outside of their suggested setups, clearly people do it all the time. It does increase risk drastically and the likelihood of severe stress, disease and accidental death increase drastically.

 

[calivivarium1]

I'm curious.... why does the depth matter?

 

[Nora]

I'm curious.... why does the depth matter?

The biggest concern with depth in general is the potential drowning issue. FBT's are 'semi-aquatic' and the general suggestion is a much shallower depth, they can swim some but remember these are toads, not frogs. Many people keep these happily in terrariums, the 50/50 paludarium set-up is a much better way to induce breeding and somewhat more naturalistic. It's been awile since I read directly about drowning with these guys but if I remember right all of the deep water drownings involved amplexis, stressed out animals (the enivironment is a huge part of that) and territory disputes with the deep water preventing escape by the 'toad on the bottom'. I haven't kept these in deep water - not worth the risk IMO, but you can head over to caudata.org to check out FBT issues with deep water and drowning, here's a link to the FBT sub-forum http://www.caudata.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=77

 

[Vicious_Fish]

I don't think it's a bad start but I agree with Nora that the water is pretty deep and the frogs could use some more dry land area.

 

[calivivarium1]

Interesting... i guess it jsut goes to show why FBT's are lower on the food chain.

 

[Nora]

Interesting... i guess it jsut goes to show why FBT's are lower on the food chain.

Que? Lower than what? On which food chain?

 

[mellowvision]

I'd like to be more encouraging, but this isn't really a very good environment for frogs. not only do you pose a threat of drowning with the high waterline, but you give them no headroom to jump or climb. The tank also lacks any land area at all, you may have platforms, but you don't have land, moss, anything that would make the frog feel safe, settled, or at all at home. A plastic platform is not satisfying these needs. Frogs also actively hunt for their food, and the terrestrial substrate is where they'd do this.

As well as a lack of land, there is a fundamental lack of shelter. there are no safe places for a frog to hide if scared or threatened, and I'd imagine they'd be likely to jump out of the tank or drown in a panic, if they felt the need to hide.


My suggestion would be to get a separate tank, and build a suitable environment for your frogs that is oriented around their needs, and has plants and substrate that will make them more likely to survive.

 

[tylerk]

I really do appreciate the responses and criticisms - it is what I need to help me learn. Although they do seem to be happy/fine, I do see what you guys mean, needing more room, both vertically and substrate. They do have plenty of plants to hide in, the pictures didn't show it well enough, but they don't have just one cave or hole to hide in/under. I believe I can get my hands on an old 10g tank that isn't in use to try and put together a better environment for them and leave the fish to the water. From the sounds of it, lowering water level from the 12"/6" is it at now to a more even 10"/8" or even 8"/8" wouldn't do the trick, so I'll see what I can do with the 10g.

Thanks again for all the advice and hopefully I will have something new to present soon enough!

 

[Nora]

MV -well said.

TylerK - I'm sorry if I came out hyper critical - after reading your last post I glanced over and realized that you aren't just new to the toads - you're new to the forum too. So a belated welcome to you and thanks for taking it all in stride.

It really is hard pulling in everything you want to put together and meeting all of the different needs, bravo to you for coming up with a workable, plan B. Your new crew will thank you - in their own way of course.

Can't wait to see the new set up.

opcorn: