New Paludarium Questions

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mellowvision

Seafood Lover
May 17, 2007
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Brooklyn NY
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Bill Brissette
Thanks again for all the advice and hopefully I will have something new to present soon enough!

you're certainly a good sport about it, not everyone takes criticism well, or even cares as much as you seem to about their pet's habitats. for that, I give you kudos. And it's not easy to build that first paludarium, it's a lot different than a fish tank and can seem daunting, but it's so worth it. If I had it my way, I wouldn't have another aquarium again, I'd only have paludariums.

Don't wait to present something... asking questions and showing progress along the way has been really helpful for me here... there are a lot of simple solutions to the issues you face, and we're all here to help.

suggestions:

take a loot at the techniques discussed at Brian's Tropicals. He has some nice ideas about tank design. http://www.brianstropicals.com/building.html

investigate cork bark. it's cheap and so nice to work with.
http://www.herpsupplies.com/product.cfm?groupid=7370&id=Cork-mini

and not to drive you away from this site, because honestly I wish this section had a lot more people, but check out dendroboard too, there are some nice build threads there... although I think those guys get too caught up in their great stuff foam loving. http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/

and I guess that leads me to my final suggestion for today, in your first terrarium/paludarium, I would avoid using great stuff foam. it is cool for some things, but there's a lot to go wrong, and it's a very lengthy process. materials like cork and wood and stone are a lot easier to get started with.
 

tylerk

AC Members
Jul 30, 2009
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Thank you for those suggestions - I certainly will go through all of them. I do like this board and love going through the signatures of certain posters to view their set ups and try and get ideas.

I was able to get my hands on an empty 10 gallon that is in good shape. My roommate is also OK with another aquarium going up. So, I have decided to a true paludarium with this one - live plants, good set up and probably just some shrimp/guppies for the water instead of a full blown community tank, which I will leave for the already built set up.

Onto my ideas. It is funny that you mention the foam, mellow, as I was just going over a build I found last night where the person used foam and thought it looked like a very good/simple idea. I have seen your cork set ups and loved them, but it seems that styrofoam might be more accessible. Please correct me if I'm wrong, I would love to hear the pro's cons of both cork and foam as unbiasedly as possible:grinno:.

I have already researched some stuff and understand it will cost money to do this, but my goal is to do it as inexpensively as possible (I definitely do not mean "cheapest" - I know not to cut corners). As I am new to the building world, I definitely want/need suggestions.

My simple idea is I would love to build a fun platform for the toads that is longer than tall since it is a standard 10 gallon. I imagine it having a ramp on one side, leading to a false bottom platform of sorts (potentially just being a cave-like structure) and a waterfall on the opposite side of the ramp. Mellow, I liked your cork design in your 5.5g (I think it was the 5.5g) and plan to use a similar filtration/circulation design. With this idea in mind - any suggestions as to supplies? I think I will just use a simple pump behind the structure to pump the water up to a waterfall.

So let's get the ideas flowing - help the new guy out!

Thanks again to all those who have responded and thanks to those for future responses. I promise to post pictures of the progress.
 

mellowvision

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May 17, 2007
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sounds like a decent plan. I wouldn't neccessarily go for a waterfall in my first tank, not that it's super hard, but it can add complications and it ensures splashy glass most of the time. even the drip in my 5.5 keeps the glass wet, and makes it harder to view. the ramp, I'd say, in a ten gallon, is a waste of valuable space... the frogs will be able to climb a few inches of cork. but if you have an idea in your head, go with it. I'm just generalizing.

foam may be more accessable, but it's such a long process, and if you screw up at the end, it can be hard to repair. the cork is natural, works well, is easy to use, and looks good. you can rip and break it with your hands, cut it with a knife or jigsaw, and yet it still holds up really well underwater. it's cheaper that using foam as well. you don't need to cure it, coat it, seal it, paint it, or any of that. you pretty much glue it in and wait for the glue to dry. plants love the stuff too.

for a ten gallon with the kind of sump structure you are into, I'd suggest getting one of the large cork tubes from herp supply, some plastic mesh, some ceramic filter media balls, a bag of cocofiber, and some fine dark gravel, (like flourite sized). you might need a bit of plexi here or there, but with those materials you should be able to do nice things. I like hydroton as a ceramic media, but it wouldn't work in my 5.5 gallon, because it FLOATS. so the minute I filled it with water, it just went to crap. keep that in mind! you want a non floating media for under the land.

the cork tube will be more than enough to fill the tank. you can cut it and break it to form your landarea's walls, and glue it in. then, fill the walls with teh ceramics, layer mesh over top, and add cocofiber mixed with a little of the gravel. (and some carbon if you have it)

the waterline needs to stay below the cocofiber, so plan for that with your wall height and layering.

you can use the rest of the gravel on the floor underwater.

also, buy some java moss now, and stick it in a jar in the window. cut it up a bit. get it growing, so when you're done building, you'll have some to work with.


in terms of filter, my 5.5 was cheap up until i added the locline. that stuff is great, but it's pricey. and the pump clogs every 4 weeks or so. it's not the best filtration. if I had it to do again, I'd just give myself a little more space back there. it's hard to get my hand in, and there's not enough room for more foam or anything. I worked up this idea, and think something similar could work well for a 10 as well... http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201578&page=3 but it's unproven as of yet.

a canister filter will work well, but you might have a little trouble getting it primed the first few times. The canister on my 15 struggles to get started with the added lift. a lot of internal filters will work on their sides, but can be hard to obscure. if you have a dedicated stand for this, and the tank is used, drilling it out and having a sump under the tank would be awesome for this kind of design... but a lot of work. I've never really had a sump myself, out of space.
 

tylerk

AC Members
Jul 30, 2009
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Thanks for ALL that, mellow! Ideas are starting to flow (no pun intended) for how I will combine the filtering with the design. I loved your idea that you linked to - the foam filter behind the back. I have an idea that I found googling around for the cork bark - can I use standard "cork", in sheet form? That would make for a great backdrop if I can add some wood pieces to it. I know it doesn't have the natural look that corkbark has, but I can add to it to make it look good. I now have quite a bit of driftwood laying around that came along for the ride with the donated 10g. I am thinking that possibly creating the platform out of sheet cork, then piecing together some natural looking objects along with moss and plants will give it a good look, as well as be very manageable to create a solid platform. My only question is would this cork be different from cork bark in ways that would harm the environment I'm creating? Would it breakdown easily in the water without being cured in some fashion?

If not, this might be the way I go, along with the filtering system you had designed on the other thread you linked to. If the cork sheet wouldn't work, I will figure it out with the cork bark, as it definitely seems to be the best bet. My next few questions are regarding the filter setup. I think the final design, with the flow underneathe the foam, is the way to go, but would I (and should I) put any other filtering products such as the ceramic media or carbon?

Also you mentioned that you didn't think the waterfall was a good idea. Do you like the "dripping" method better? I did research that tubing you created on the 5.5g and it did seem expensive. I'm sure I could rig something up similar from the hardware store that would work similarly.

I want to clarify that I am definitely not against the cork bark in any capacity, even though it probably seems like I'm trying to stay away from it. In fact, I really like the cork bark, but am slightly timid to use it because I am not sure how I would make it work and look good. For my first attempt at the real thing I feel like something that is a bit more structured to work with such as squared off edges of cork sheet that I can cut and design would be easier for me
. But I definitely have doubts to if it would work or not.

Thanks again for the help, mellow, you definitely spoon feeding this one to me...
 

mellowvision

Seafood Lover
May 17, 2007
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Brooklyn NY
www.mellowvision.com
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you can't use cork sheet, like a cork board. the cork is processed and can contain nasty stuff. they do sell cork flats, which are bark rounds flattened out a bit, but really, the rounds are the cheapest way to go, and have the most natural feel. when you split one, the two halfs now are likely to sit nicely next to each other. the key is to keep them running vertically. you can stuff a little coco fiber and moss in between them and never see what's behind.

the drip is ok, especially when it's running slow, but it's not great as a primary filter return on that small tank. it might be ok with a larger system. you can use 1/4" airline tubing with a Toro drip manifold, which goes from 1/2" to 8 or 10 1/4" hoses... but you need some pressure to push it, and need to keep in mind that any of those hoses could clog. most plants will grow better with mist than a drip, if you want to go nuts. epiweb is another material to consider for a drip wall, although it doesn't look so natural to start, it could act as both the drip wall and the rough filter medium. a more failsafe way to go would be a filter that just filtered the water, and a mist bottle seperate. a cheap mister can be easy. look up cold mist humidifier or a cheap hand pump model.

the cork is really easy to make work. don't let it intimidate you. if you go through all the trouble to build a backwall etc, you don't want it to end up looking like plastic boxes.
 

tylerk

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Jul 30, 2009
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Thanks for the response, mellow! Good point about the cork - didn't even think of that. I was finally able to find a nice local (well, 30 min away) pet store completely devoted to aquariums/terrariums/anything-else-iums. I am going to hopefully head over there after work (I'm on the west coast so it isn't too late yet over here) and see what they have. I am hoping to pick up the moss tonight, but who knows - whenever I begin a project I tend to get the needed pieces on the first trip. I hope they have what I'm looking for and can give half as decent advice as you have provided!

If I do the cork bark pieces would you recommend the filtration system you used for the 5.5g? I would love to experiment with the behind the wall set-up you linked to, but it seems like that would just take up too much space with the cork bark then coming further off the wall. I am pretty excited about starting the whole process, but am still a bit curious how I am going to provide the flat land for the toads. I am not stuck on the false bottom platform at all, and would not mind having a set up like your 5.5g. I will probably revisit the build thread and see if I can come up with some variations to accommodate some sort of a larger platform.

I'll provide an update hopefully tomorrow about how the trip to the store goes.
 

tylerk

AC Members
Jul 30, 2009
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To give a quick update, the aquatic store I found ended up being a fish only store so the terrarium pieces weren't all that readily available. I did come home with a couple live plants, but also with questions about them.

I was able to get a ball of riccia, which they had floating in a tank. Is this the best way to keep it? I followed their lead and put it in a tupperware with water to have it float, closed the lid and have it in the sun/shade outside for the day. Any recommendations on how to help it grow the best?

I also was able to get a log with Java Moss on it - they didn't have any alone. It really is a great piece, but they had that completely submerged as well. I thought this stuff survived best in air, but again, I followed their lead and just kept it in my current fish tank, submerged as they had it. I assume this isn't the best way to keep it, so any suggestions would be nice.

I am still trying to work out the filter/circulation set up and plan on getting the graph paper and pencil out today and putting my creative hat on. I'll keep updates going, along with pictures once the process becomes a bit clearer.
 

tylerk

AC Members
Jul 30, 2009
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So, quick update with more to follow. I finally got the tank cleaned up, have the wood I'm using, picking up the filter and pump system today and am waiting on the shipment of black flourite, a couple different ceramic media to test out, and the cocofiber. I haven't glued anything in place yet, but have a decent idea of the set up I want to use and have taken pictures of it - just haven't uploaded them yet, hopefully will do that today. I used one fo those real wood caves that the local petstores all have for a corner piece to use as my filter canister and am using some cork bark as a platform and back wall. I am still playing around with it to decide what is the best set up. I will have the pictures uploaded tonight after work and will love feedback from everybody.

Quick question for this time around - I planned on using an aquarium sealant that is clear silicone. Is this good to use for the wood to aquarium and some wood to wood gluing or is there something else you guys recommend?
 
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