Restocking 40 gallon after mass die off

[FishyWarrior]

Here i am again asking about stocking, haha. But recently i went away for a week to visit a friend and came back to a crisis in my 40 gallon. My dad was in charge with feeding and said everything was fine, but i came home to incredibly stressed fish that refused to eat as well as several dead. According to him this must have happened from the time it took to pick me up from the train. I still have zero idea what's happening, i'm losing fish every day now, 17 total have died in just 4 days.

I added in an airstone, been giving them daily water changes, and dosing with paraguard in case it's some kind of illness taking them. I can't think of what this could be, but the symptoms seem to point to body flukes or some other kind of parasite. Some of the fish that are left are swimming around and eating again, if only very small amounts, but a lot of them are still very stressed. I want to say that this happened because i didn't quarantine the new panda cories i added in about 2 weeks ago and then stressed them out by changing out their white sand for black sand, which must have allowed whatever they had on them to take hold and affect everyone else.

I should have learned my lesson about quarantining fish by now but that's going to change. No use dwelling on what i could have done and just focus on what i need to do in the future. i have a new 20 gallon set up and cycling for when i actually do decide to buy more fish, which won't be until i see signs of improvement in my 40 gallon. Even so, the fish i buy will be in quarantine for at least a month, no way am i letting this happen again. So until then, i want to make sure i have a plan for what to stock.

This is what i have in mind, but i need to know if they're compatible and peaceful enough to keep.

-20 or so neon or cardinal tetras (i hear conflicting info on both, which would you guys recommend?)
-a pair of gold rams
-a clown or bristlenose pleco
-either 3 honey or dwarf gouramis, or another school of larger tetra (i'm not sure what kind or how many, depends on what my lfs has in stock, they just need to be peaceful. Serpae tetras really caught my eye, but are they aggressive?)
-the siamensis and 8 cories(4 panda and 4 skunks) i have now, if they all end up surviving this epidemic.

I just need these all to be peaceful, i want a nice calm environment, not something like before where supposedly peaceful fish keep killing their tankmates.
The pH of my tank is around 7.2, the gh is around 120ppm and kh about 50ppm. I keep the temp at 77F consistently.

 

[fishorama]

I'm sorry you came home to a disaster. I've had that happen, too, with inexperienced fish sitters. I know your dad tried his best but he probably overfed...a lot. Did you test your water? Lots of water changes are the answer. Good luck!

Remind us of your 40g dimensions, there are 3 "standard" shapes; tall, 30 inches x 12 x 24 high; long, 48" x 12 x 16 high; & breeder 36" x 15 x ? high.

As for your stocking, I'd get a BN pleco, clowns are cute but you'll never ever see it unless you're an insomniac.

& gouramis, well, it'll depend a bit on your tank shape. I haven't seen female dwarf gouramis in many, many years (they're boring silver); males will fight unless there's enough room & enough plants to block each other's vision of the other; 2 males max. & then there's the virus they're very often prone to. I'd vote for honeys, 1 male & 1 or 2 females.

Rams prefer slightly warmer temps & so do cardinal tetras. Neons like cooler water; go with cardinals, but look them over very carefully. Both cards & neons can have "neon tetra disease" . Look at the blue line, if it looks straight, great! If it looks bent or broken with white, skip that entire batch, it's a contagious disease you don't want. There is no effective cure.

Serpae tetras are bad news fin nippers, don't do it!

 

[tanker]

Sorry for your losses. "Fishorama" said it all. Have you checked your parameters yet?
I do not think it is an illness, more likely either over-feeding or something got into the water, maybe even from your father's hands when feeding.

 

[FishyWarrior]

I apologize for the wall of text in advance, a lot of it might be me rambling trying to think of what couldpossibly caused this.

Yeah i did test, all the parameters were normal, 0,0,20. Also i have an amano shrimp in there and he's still doing excellently, wouldn't shrimp be super sensitive to bad water if that was the issue? I do believe that overfeeding would be an issue, which is why i showed him exactly how much to give him, which was way under the usual amount i normally give them. Which would have been fine for a 5 day trip. But would overfeeding really cause such a mass die off like this? I've had a couple fish gorge themselves to death before because those particular fish were really greedy, but it never triggered such a chain reaction like this.

The symptoms my fish are showing are little interest in food and even spitting out the food that they try to eat, sitting near the surface, heavy breathing, red gills, red marks on some of their bodies (not fins like ammonia burns), occasionally itching themselves, hiding and sitting at the bottom, White stringy poo, and lethargy. I've tested my water every day but not once has ammonia or nitrite showed up in my tests. I used both api liquid tests and tetra strips, both results are the same.

But now that i think of it...i wonder if my dad did fail to wash his hands right, or even washed them with soap without thinking about it... because he had to stick his hands in there to feed my synodontis who always hide in the plants, if he didn't they wouldn't eat at all. Like if it was something i did it wouldn't make sense for them to be eating fine when i left after i stressed them out with the sand switch, just to go back to being incredibly stressed and sickly looking when i come back to them...I really don't know at this point, he says he was sure that he only used water to rinse his hands, but maybe he forgot? Or it could just be an illness.

Here's a picture of my platy before she died a couple days ago, she showed these symptoms the clearest.

On the topic of stocking.

My tank is the typical 40gal breeder tank, don't remember the exact dimensions but it probably isn't any different from other breeders.

I could go with a bristlenose again, the one i had was one of the first victims to this tragedy and i loved him so much, so it'd be fun to try having another one again.

Honeys it is then, the problem with them is i haven't actually seen any in stores for a long time, but i'm sure when i actually can get them they'll be around. Any easy way to tell genders?

Thanks for the heads up about ntd though, i'll definitely be looking for that! The price for cardinals kind of scares me though, they are about 3 or 4 times more expensive than neons in my area and i want to get as big a school as i can. Are they they hardier than neons to justify the extra cost?

Also with rams, i'm a little scared because i hear that they can get aggressive, but there's a lot of conflicting info about them so i don't know what to believe.Does anyone here have any experience with them?

 

[fishorama]

Well. you platy pic looks a bit like ammonia burn on the tail but also clamped. Hard to tell what was wrong. Keep doing water changes!!! Nothing helps more!

In a breeder tank a ram pair, male & female, & a BN pleco should be fine with a few hiding places; wood, rocks, plants, you know what I mean. Any cichlids can be a bit aggressive & females often mature earlier than males. Make sure you & LFS fish catcher understand the difference. Look it up! Unless they're very small, it's not super hard to see the sexual differences. Of course, there's nothing that says any eggs or fry will survive in a community tank...but maybe your Q tank will be available & you might want to try raising some fry. It can be fun, if a lot of work. There's always next month with most cichlids, they're pretty regular spawners once they get the idea.

If you can't afford a healthy group of cardinals all at once...that's what your quarantine tank is for!! Neons will be less than healthy at ram temps, EVER! Rams like very high 70F's or low 80s, Neons want low 70Fs at most, they are NOT compatible, don't do it! Or choose different fish...but all on your list except neons are good with upper 70Fs.

 

[FishyWarrior]

Well. you platy pic looks a bit like ammonia burn on the tail but also clamped. Hard to tell what was wrong. Keep doing water changes!!! Nothing helps more!

In a breeder tank a ram pair, male & female, & a BN pleco should be fine with a few hiding places; wood, rocks, plants, you know what I mean. Any cichlids can be a bit aggressive & females often mature earlier than males. Make sure you & LFS fish catcher understand the difference. Look it up! Unless they're very small, it's not super hard to see the sexual differences. Of course, there's nothing that says any eggs or fry will survive in a community tank...but maybe your Q tank will be available & you might want to try raising some fry. It can be fun, if a lot of work. There's always next month with most cichlids, they're pretty regular spawners once they get the idea.

If you can't afford a healthy group of cardinals all at once...that's what your quarantine tank is for!! Neons will be less than healthy at ram temps, EVER! Rams like very high 70F's or low 80s, Neons want low 70Fs at most, they are NOT compatible, don't do it! Or choose different fish...but all on your list except neons are good with upper 70Fs.

From what i read rams usually only get really aggressive when they are protecting fry or eggs and sometimes their territory. Do they breed very easily in tanks? And can they actually kill other fish like cories if they accidentally enter the ram's territory?

And also, will 77F be ok for all the fish mentioned, cories included?
Also now i'm kinda paranoid about neon tetra disease, is it a common thing? I know my lfs cycles through fish pretty quickly, tetras i assume go by even faster, what are the chances that they will have it but not show signs of it right away?

 

[fishorama]

Oh, I forgot your corys, sorry. The pandas are ok at 77F, I don't recall skunk's temp preferences. Planetcatfish is my go to site for catfish.

Don't get a Siamese algae eater, they get much bigger than your other fish & by their size & activity will cause trouble.

Happy cichlids will breed. The biggest problem is rams are territorial, they defend the spawning area & the place they move any fry to. Corys really just don't understand the whole idea of territories & go...wherever there might be food, including eggs & small fry. Community tanks are not the best breeding tanks if you want babies.

 

[FishyWarrior]

Oh, I forgot your corys, sorry. The pandas are ok at 77F, I don't recall skunk's temp preferences. Planetcatfish is my go to site for catfish.

Don't get a Siamese algae eater, they get much bigger than your other fish & by their size & activity will cause trouble.

Happy cichlids will breed. The biggest problem is rams are territorial, they defend the spawning area & the place they move any fry to. Corys really just don't understand the whole idea of territories & go...wherever there might be food, including eggs & small fry. Community tanks are not the best breeding tanks if you want babies.

Oh, i already have a siamese algae eater, i do know that they get big, but what kind of problems will they cause?

I'm not really hoping for babies since that means they will get protective which is why i ask if they will breed in any setup easily. Do you know if the rams will get so protective that they will actually kill any cory or fish that wanders too close? Or are they not even capable of killing fish and it would be more chasing instead of attacking?

 

[fishorama]

Really that stocking "should" be ok. Rams are cichlids but "fairly" mellow. I doubt they would actually kill fish but definitely will chase them & possibly bite them. If you've never had cichlids spawn, it's very fun to watch. Don't plan on more than a lucky fry or 2 to survive in a planted community tank.

I would not get another school of tetras, a big bunch of cardinals will be lovely & you don't really have room for another species. The SAE will be ok & help make your cardinals school more tightly just by his size. A 5+ inch fish is pushing it in a 3ft tank, keep the tank covered. I would be concerned he'll eat all the food, lol, they're hogs.

 

[FishyWarrior]

Really that stocking "should" be ok. Rams are cichlids but "fairly" mellow. I doubt they would actually kill fish but definitely will chase them & possibly bite them. If you've never had cichlids spawn, it's very fun to watch. Don't plan on more than a lucky fry or 2 to survive in a planted community tank.

I would not get another school of tetras, a big bunch of cardinals will be lovely & you don't really have room for another species. The SAE will be ok & help make your cardinals school more tightly just by his size. A 5+ inch fish is pushing it in a 3ft tank, keep the tank covered. I would be concerned he'll eat all the food, lol, they're hogs.

Alright, that sounds good then! I'll try the rams and see how it goes when everything else is sorted out.

I'm sorry for asking so many questions, but is there a certain order i should introduce these fish or does it not matter too much? And 20 or so cardinals should be an ok number to go with right?