Stocking question for a 20g Long

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M8D

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As of today the ammonia reads: 2-4ppm
Nitrites are around 2-5ppm
Nitrates are somewhere in the 5-20ppm (oranges are a bit difficult to tell apart but I'm leaning more towards 5ppm just cus it's still got a yellow-hue)

Is it just me or is this cycling really fast o-o I thought it took about a week for Nitrates to show up? Oh well... I'm not complaining. Go little tank, go!!! -cheers-
 

Byron Amazonas

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I'll respond to your stocking questions, but first a quick comment on the cycling...what are you adding for ammonia? Cycling times vary as so many factors are involved, but it can be from 2 to 8 weeks usually. Of course, using live plants, you can forget cycling. I'll explain if asked.

To the stocking. I would certainly not add Red Minor Tetra. First, a 20g is really insufficient space as this species is best in a larger group (12+) and a 30g for just this species is minimum. Second, never add this species with sedate fish like gourami. While there are always exceptions, the general tendency of this species (Red Minor Tetra, which is another name for Serpae Tetra, scientifically Hyphessobrycon eques) is to be rather feisty. Kept in smaller groups they usually fin nip each other. But when sedate fish are present, they are often--nearly always--targeted.

There are some lovely suitable tetra which are near-identical in appearance, such as the Rosy Tetra (H. rosaceus) or Robert's Tetra (H. bentosi). However, you might want to re-think things. A 20g long is not much space. If you want more fish for added interest, look to the "dwarf" species in the characins and rasbora, pecilfish, hatchetfish. The gourami or Rainbows might be problems here, as all these are not necessarily suitable. What are your water parameters, meaning GH (general hardness) and pH? These can be important especially if we are considering wild-caught fish. You can ascertain the GH and pH from the water supplier, probably on their website.

Byron.
 

M8D

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Just adding janitorial strength Ace brand ammonia. I was using Seachem's Stability but that didn't seem to get me anywhere with a week of adding it with the ammonia already in there.

I figure what you mean with the live plant aspect is because they help keep your water parameters down. P:
My GH is 12 drops and my KH is 9-10 from the tap and last time i checked it was pretty much the same for the tank water too. I'm hoping if i had a little more driftwood it might soften it, if just by a little bit.
 

Star_Rider

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Using Stability (seachem) may take a bit for the bacteria to populate. Stability uses a 'shelf' stable bacteria ,(meaning it is probably dormant) and it may take 1-3 weeks to become active.
IME, it does 'shorten' the normal cycle . in my case the normal cycle without use of live bacteria is 6-8 weeks. using Stsbility shortened my cycle time by 2 weeks on the 'test' tank I was using.
 

Byron Amazonas

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Just adding janitorial strength Ace brand ammonia. I was using Seachem's Stability but that didn't seem to get me anywhere with a week of adding it with the ammonia already in there.

I figure what you mean with the live plant aspect is because they help keep your water parameters down. P:
My GH is 12 drops and my KH is 9-10 from the tap and last time i checked it was pretty much the same for the tank water too. I'm hoping if i had a little more driftwood it might soften it, if just by a little bit.
Stability is fine, as Ed mentioned. I too have used it in new tanks when I had no plants [will explain this momentarily] and it worked. I have never added any artificial ammonia.

Live plants. These need nitrogen, and most of the aquarium plants prefer nitrogen in the form of ammonium (ammonia). Plants are very fast at taking up ammonia/ammonium, faster in fact than bacteria. So with sufficient live plants, including some fast growers (and floating plants are ideal at this) you can forget adding ammonia and introduce a few fish with no problems. I have live plants in all my tanks, and have set up new tanks or re-set tanks dozens of times with no issues thanks to the plants. The bacteria will still appear, but a bit slower (as there is less ammonia for them). But the benefits are absolutely no detrimental effects on the fish and no nitrite being produced from the plants use of ammonia.

To your parameters. With the KH that high you will not see much of a lowering in pH. I would suggest none at all. Now that we know these numbers, your fish suggestions can be considered. If it should be necessary to lower the GH and corresponding pH, diluting the tap water with pure water is the best method to use. Peat, wood and dry leaves all work, but they give out and need replacing, and their effectiveness is determined by the initial hardness, so the harder or higher the KH (and GH figures in this too) the more tannins needed.

Byron.
 

M8D

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aah, yeah I thought it became active once it went in the tank, didn't know it took a week or so for it to activate. That could explain why after 2 weeks of adding I saw nothing until this week. Well, I guess it's nice to know those 10$ weren't a total waste. Heh.

All my fish are coming from Petsmart. We don't have LFS and I have no intention of ordering fish. I'm pretty sure petsmart uses the same water as me so I can't imagine there would be much difference in our tanks. If you're going to recommend fish for me, though I've already had about ten others say my current stock is fine, don't reccommend Livebearers. I don't want them... I don't want to deal with them... I just... no. Yes I could get all males, but trying to sex them in crowded tank like that is impossible and Im not going to risk getting mobbed by fish fry.
 

Byron Amazonas

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aah, yeah I thought it became active once it went in the tank, didn't know it took a week or so for it to activate. That could explain why after 2 weeks of adding I saw nothing until this week. Well, I guess it's nice to know those 10$ weren't a total waste. Heh.

All my fish are coming from Petsmart. We don't have LFS and I have no intention of ordering fish. I'm pretty sure petsmart uses the same water as me so I can't imagine there would be much difference in our tanks. If you're going to recommend fish for me, though I've already had about ten others say my current stock is fine, don't reccommend Livebearers. I don't want them... I don't want to deal with them... I just... no. Yes I could get all males, but trying to sex them in crowded tank like that is impossible and Im not going to risk getting mobbed by fish fry.
Yes, the dwarf neon rainbows will be fine, a group of minimum 6 with 2 males and 4 females. It is always best to select fish that will manage in your water, rather than fussing over water adjustment.

As you mentioned it, I would like to generally comment on this issue of water parameters and fish managing accordingly. We must remember that fish in stores are only there temporarily, or so they hope. This is very different from long-term maintenance. It is our responsibility as aquarists to provide the best we can for our fish, which are living creatures that deserve no less. Not all stores appreciate this, unfortunately. But through forums like AC we can all learn and become better aquarists. This applies to not only water parameters, but compatibility, tank sizes, aquascaping, etc. Most fish in store tanks are in an environment that is much less ideal than what we can provide at home.

As to the adaptability, this has its limits. And even when it seems to be the case, the fish may be internally weakening. Fish just dying "for no reason" can sometimes be traced back to this. Without dissection by a qualified biologist, this is undetected. It seems inconceivable to me that a fish species that has evolved over thousands of years to function best in some specific water parameters is somehow going to suddenly change its biological system. I'm being very general here, and there are a number of related factors involved. But thinking in general terms, keeping hard water fish in harder water and soft water fish in somewhat softer water has been shown to extend the lifespan, all else being equal.

Byron.
 
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M8D

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Yes, all the things you bring up are true. I know of very few fish though that enjoy hard water and high pH that can fit in a 20 gallon tank though that DON'T require me to order them online and spend $100 just for a few fish... I cannot have anything larger than a 40g tank though in this apartment complex and since i'm just starting out I do not really want to start on a large tank first, not to mention i am moving to a new place in June after my lease expires.
 

Byron Amazonas

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Yes, all the things you bring up are true. I know of very few fish though that enjoy hard water and high pH that can fit in a 20 gallon tank though that DON'T require me to order them online and spend $100 just for a few fish... I cannot have anything larger than a 40g tank though in this apartment complex and since i'm just starting out I do not really want to start on a large tank first, not to mention i am moving to a new place in June after my lease expires.
Very true. When asked about fish for smaller tanks, I can rapidly suggest many that suit soft water, but finding hard water species is not so easy. But you're on the right track here. And your water is not "liquid rock" so that is better than some areas. B.
 

M8D

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Well it finally happened. I tested this morning and Nitrites were still there, though for the past 2 days it has been slower to change to purple. What I mean is, when I hit the spike the first time, the tube changed purple IMMEDIATELY after adding the drops, before even inverting. The past two days it had been taking a few seconds to change, and really just stayed a dark blue until I inverted the tube.

Tested this morning, still had nitrites. Tested just now at.... 11pm... and I now have 0 Amm, 0 Nitrites, and a whooooole lot of Nitrates as it should be. My friend is taking me to the store Friday to get the fish since it's too cold now to bike home (I only live a few city blocks away from Petsmart) Montana just hit a bad cold spell so I figured I'd play it safe.

These were the readings. I took the Nitrite test twice cus the first time I was like "Wha-what? Did I miscount the drops?" so I took in a second time, counting carefully and turned out the same. Clearly there are no more Nitrites. :D



So Friday after I get home I'll do a 90% WC, clean my filter (its full of tannis and random pieces of plant fluff) and go get my fish <3

Ganna dose my take up with ammonia as a test tonight and then test tomorrow when I get home and hopefully it'll zero-out. Soooo took me... 4-5 weeks total to cycle? Yup.
 
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