True Albino Betta on Aquabid
- Thread starter Treefork
- Start date
I completely agree with that they are uncommon, and I don't mean to argue. I'm simply pointing out that it is unethical,and I do not agree with what this breeder is doing.
OMG, I could not agree more!!!! It has no right to exist, and should be stoned to death in front of it's friends, family, and every peer group it has ever intersected with...
Yeesh, I sure hope your bettas are wild type, talking like that. Funny thing about ethical standards is how easily they can make people look hypocritical. Fact of the matter is, the albinism is an entirely natural genetic mutation, and one that serves the evolutionary purpose of spreading one's genes extremely well (at least in the captive setting). This fish's "defect" as you view it, has actually won it much better care than most of it's brood mates, I am sure. As such, it's albinism is an evolutionary advantage given it's current situation. Enjoy living up to your own standards, JK. I for one have no interest in such high minded rhetoric, especially when it almost always ends with someone putting their foot squarely down their own throats.
Even with quality care, there is a great chance things could go wrong in albinos. there are a lot of genetic issues that could come along with albanism that even the best of care can't fix. Purposely trying to spread something that in the long run is really bad for a fish isn't a good idea. I'm not saying every single albino betta fish in this world should be killed, I'm saying breeding for albanism isn't ethical. I'm saying exploiting it isn't good either. In my views, if you breed and end up with a random albino, culling is an option, seeing as albanism is an unwanted gentic mutation in most strain. Adopting it out is another option. There are options, but in the end most albinos are not healthy creatures, so they shouldn't be considered high quality fish. Would a fish with a severly bent spine that occured as a genetic mutation be sold for 2,000... would the breeder pretty much say "Look at this awesome fish, it has a rare medical condition, you'll love it. It's worth a fortune, and it's show quality and everything"... Would it be a cull, or be adopted out? Probably
I understand where you are going with this, and I understand that yes, this fish will probably receive amazing care (If someone decides to spend a small fortune on what may just become a sick fish). I understand betta splendens in general can hindered by their extremely long tails, and in some points of views the long tails, bright colors, and aggression can be defects, but if bred correctly, it is not. Unless this breeder is a freaking genius who has figured out how to breed albino bettas but make sure they won't have other genetic issues that will pop up over the months/years, then chances are the bettas are going to have worse issues than long fins.
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Not necessarily....do a search for short-bodied cichlids or short-bodied bichirs. For that matter, look at some of those crazy fancy goldfish. Those are also random (or selectively bread, in the case of orandas, ryukins, etc) genetic mutations that people pass off as unique, show-quality, and worth a fortune. Or, look at genetically mutated turtles born with two heads. They appear periodically, it is documented that they don't survive very long, yet any time you see one for sale its going to be for an exorbitant price.
So you're saying that selectively breeding for long tails, which hinder the fish's movement, if "bred correctly" is not a problem? I'm not sure I understand you here.
This downside is well documented in any species that is heavily selectively bred for certain characteristics. It is not unique to fish; many animals that are bred for certain (usually aesthetic, but not always) traits often end up with genetic health problems as a result. Certain dog and horse breeds are the first that come to mind.
While very rare and I would love to start a strand....... $2,000 is a little on the high side for just one betta.
Sploke said:
exactly. If you think about those fish, while some are able to function, some can't even breed without help and are extremely suceptable to pretty serious conditions throughout their lives. Why breed and produce a life that won't be able to live the way it has a right to? And then to expoit it for more money to continue doing so? I understand this happens with almost any animal but it still doesn't make sense to me.Sploke said:
Bred correctly as in the breeder makes sure to find the right balance where his or her line's tails are not too heavy and bulky as to hinder the fish, but can still be long. There are some breeders who breed fish with fins (like the "dumbo bettas" with waaay too big pectoral fins that severely limit their ability to move) so long the fish labor to swim and often resort to tailbiting as a means to lessen the drag. (like this fish who has more trouble swimming then the average hm betta) but there are others who are able to breed fish with nice tails that are long but light/short enough where the fish can still support it. When bred correctly, there should be a balance between looking pretty for the people and being able to live/swim normally (like this fish, who can swim)Sploke said:
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Ah, but even the ones with more modest long finnage have more difficulty getting around than those with natural fin types. At the end of the day, even you, with all your "concern" for the lives of the poor bettas, are still asking those fish to trade quality of life for little more than your aesthetic enjoyment. As has been said many times, it is up to each of us to draw our own lines in the sand, and be the arbiters of what we personally can live with. What is definitely wrong however, is moral posturing over how this mutation affects quality of life, while being perfectly fine with the progeny of other mutants who's traits also affect quality of life.
I was born with very poor eyesight. Should I remove myself from the gene pool now, and do everyone a favor? God forbid I send my detrimental genetics on to another generation of unsuspecting progeny.
I was born with very poor eyesight. Should I remove myself from the gene pool now, and do everyone a favor? God forbid I send my detrimental genetics on to another generation of unsuspecting progeny.
I will point out your sarcasm is unappreciated. We can conduct ourselves in a civil manner, no? Or are we still children incapable of polite debates? You're using sarcasm to prove your point, but you could prove it in other ways.
You are able to fix your eyesight and improve your living, be it with lazer eye surgery, glasses, or contacts. Blind humans have technology/seeing aid animals at their disposal. If you do/will/did involve yourself in the genepool, then your children would/do have bad eyesight. You can get them glasses, not a huge issue. Blind fish... what do they have or what can we give to them to help them? Nothing much really. We just have to try our best, stick them in small containers so they don't get lost in large tanks, feed them in the same spot at the same time of day so they learn how/where to get food, and keep their enviornment barren so they don't get caught in decor and die. Tell me you would breed any living creature at all knowing that might be the fate of their offspring.
Thank you very much for your genuine concern about my concern for the quality of the lives of my and other fish. It sounds like you think I am a hypocrite. Kudos to you, we are all hypocrites in one way or another
. Yes, bettas have slight difficulties, but they are still able to carry out their lives in a healthy fashion. May I point out like hm bettas, obese people (I know this might border on politically incorrect, but it helps prove my point) have issues moving around too, they're still able to live good lives (unless they are so morbidly obese they are confined to a wheelchair their entire lives, in which case I could compare them to a halfmoon with way too much finnage).As for
If you want to look at it this way, you can. But, you too are "posturing" over the heavy finnage and bright colors of bettas, all the while you are dismissing the issue of albinism.
Well, I wasn't trying to get an ethics war going. I wasn't really even posting it to show the price. I was just fascinated an albino betta existed for sale. They're pretty rare. I'm not going to get into it though, I get pretty mean when making my points and I don't need to get kicked off another fish forum.
