Mafia 58-

[jpappy789]

Thanks, Ice. And that would have been the proper time for the rest of us to switch or retract our Woodward votes had this happened that way... but not before.

Kash, can you just accept the fact that those who figured that Wood was a lost cause decided to do more than just wait out the night? Seriously.

 

[dirtydawg10]

Kash, do you see it more scummy to switch votes off a player who is clearly planning to UD (which is done quite often) or to hide a vote on a player who is planning to UD anyway so you have nothing to lose?

I wasn't personally concerned about Wood coming back to place a vote because if he did it would be his death sentence. We wouldn't have even had to play the 2nd day because he would have received all the votes. Not to mention that Ice would have killed him off anyway.

As far as your other comments about a supposed "mafia team"...is it typical for mafia to follow each other openly in posts and have a similar voting record in order to hide their allegiances or is it easier for mafia to hide by being all over the map? If you believe the first part is a better strategy then you should vote for Noods and Rich right now because Wood said they were backing him up

 

[jpappy789]

I did not get involved with the Wood thing. I was out all day and by the time I got on he had posted his death post. I saw no reason to bother with it at that point.

Eh, not entirely Rich.

:screwy: I would like to know what that means please.

In response to saying that you and Noods had his back...which is pretty much what ended setting the entire situation off. Up to that point it was mainly his vote on Zaffy that people seemed iffy about.

When he said this, the **** hit the fan. And this was all you said...

for someone who was being implicated you acted rather cool. I cannot say I am all that surprised as you tend to not get rattled when playing, but it's still odd that the questioning stopped at this, no?

 

[rich311k]

He never answered and went to bed.

 

[jbradt]

Now then.. having a look at today's posting with these suspicions in mind. I found it very interesting to read jbradt's long post this morning.

Here, he makes a reasonable sounding case against Rich for back-tracking on Woodward yesterday.



Jbradt, if you're so sure that Rich distanced himself and tried to deflect/downplay suspicion against Woodward... well, then how do you feel about the way Jpappy, Dawg, Annie, and Zaffy possibly did this too.. while also pulling the pressure of their votes off Woodward at the same time?

To be honest Kash, I have only had vague suspicions about Jpap thus far, and haven't gotten a clear read on Dawg, Annie or Zaffy. I've only got a few minutes now, but the post that you made outlining what you see makes sense. I'll have to put more time into this line of thinking tonight when I get home.

Also, I'm not sure about rich. I'm just trying to put out there what I see. And it seems to me like rich (at the very least) isn't helping the town.

 

[Kashta]

Kash, can you just accept the fact that those who figured that Wood was a lost cause decided to do more than just wait out the night? Seriously.

Sure I could, Pappy... if this was just one single point it's easier to dismiss it all as nothing more than fair speculation. But there are multiple points for us to consider now which, all taken together, support the same possible connection between you and the others who retracted those votes so dang fast.

That boils down to a combination of 3 things: The Woodward vote retractions PLUS the actual voting pattern which resulted in a Gunslinger lynch over an Annie lynch PLUS the later implication of suspicion toward players not voting Wood at all over any possibility that someone retracting their Woodward vote might be trying to protect him.

1. Jpap, Dawg, Zaffy, and Annie retracted their votes off Woodward.. citing very logical reasons for doing so.

2. Zaffy voted Gunslinger which made the vote count a tie between Gun and Annie.

3. Jpappy voted Gunslinger to break that tie... thus deciding to kill Gunslinger himself (claiming it's based on a guess) while also protecting Annie... another leading mafia suspect (and possible distancing).

4. Jbradt posting such a logical thread to blame Rich for avoiding the Woody issue... while completely overlooking the fact that other players had retracted their votes (which means he didn't hold them accountable for at all compared to Rich).

5. Jpappy fully agreeing with Jbradt that Rich must be scum (for not voting Wood)... then taking that further to cast suspicion on DD and MC for the same reason.

 

[Kashta]

Kash, do you see it more scummy to switch votes off a player who is clearly planning to UD (which is done quite often) or to hide a vote on a player who is planning to UD anyway so you have nothing to lose?

I wasn't personally concerned about Wood coming back to place a vote because if he did it would be his death sentence. We wouldn't have even had to play the 2nd day because he would have received all the votes. Not to mention that Ice would have killed him off anyway.

As far as your other comments about a supposed "mafia team"...is it typical for mafia to follow each other openly in posts and have a similar voting record in order to hide their allegiances or is it easier for mafia to hide by being all over the map? If you believe the first part is a better strategy then you should vote for Noods and Rich right now because Wood said they were backing him up

Dawg, before you try accusing me of hiding my vote on a dead player, let's first remind everyone that your vote landed all by itself as a single lone vote on Zsand.

That would also be a real safe place for you to hide your useless vote after dropping Wood and to avoid joining your teammates already voting to lynch Gun and protect Annie.

Anyone in this game can twist your vote or mine to make it appear scummy if they want to. That's why I'm looking at a number of different actions taken by different players to discuss whether it's reasonable to conclude they are connected.

Yes I voted Woodward long enough to make sure he was removed from the game because I was convinced he had to be mafia. If that seems scummy to you, then vote me.

 

[jpappy789]

1) You still have not addressed the fact that in order for your wacky theory to be true all of us theoretical mafia would have to had followed each other onto Wood in the first place.

2) Not about me

3) I pointed out Annie's vote as suspicious first AND also defended it when he questioned why I said I agree with the votes on him.

4) Hmmm, possibly because people who retracted votes had gone after Wood in the first place and saw that to keep voting him would be a waste of time? There is a HUGE difference between voting Wood and retracting and not voting him at all. I don't see why you don't comprehend this.

5) I never said Rich MUST be scum. I find him more suspicious than others because he was in the middle of the situation and questioned it once, but he made a point. At the same time I cannot know whether he held back because he simply was not around. It's not out of character, mafia or innocent for him to stay away from controversy.

 

[jpappy789]

Kash, here are all my posts in response to Wood or what he was doing...

Ok so there are 3 communicators and 4 non-communicators, not the other way around. My mistake.



Pretty nonchalant for someone who's played what, one game? More confident now that you have a mafia team behind your back?

Actually, I'm pretty sure in that game only one other person had two votes because someone got another players vote. Other than that it was all singletons and your three. Then it became a three horse race.

I don't think it means anything, but it is still odd. Add in the fact that Wood seems pretty confident in trying to mix things up...don't exactly know where I'm going here myself...

My bad Dawg. I just saw your post at 9 this morning. I promise to quit skimming until the next time it happens.

Wood...I don't understand the big change in posting style this game. Noods and rich have your back? Really? I don't know what you are trying to pull but it is not very town-like.

I retract my vote on MC and vote to lynch Woodward

Hmmm last game was boring? You had a role and could communicate with another innocent. Interesting response.

Thats exactly what I'm thinking...please explain it us Wood, as you would to a 3rd grader (in my best Annie voice).

RE: the teammate comments

1) Wood is innocent and not really sure what he is doing, no matter how confident he seems.

2) He is mafia and is trying to set up Noods and Rich

3) He is mafia and screwed up.

I am leaning towards either 1 or 2. No way Noods or Rich would allow a teammate to pull such a stunt on day 1. Not their playing style either IMO.

I'm going to go back and dig into some actual posts since last night.

Actually, #2 I believe.

I don't buy that whole mafia vote #3 thing. Too inconsistent. More often than not mafia will vote by themselves on Day 1.

Ok and since Wood is typing within posts...

Bold is jb, normal is wood.



I don't really know what to make of this. I don't ever believe that new players get "coached" but if there ever a time for it to happen this has to be it.

The line in red...why the heck would any innocent want to cause so much confusion and get themselves lynched in the process? According to Wood he is "enhancing his co-players minds". Ummm not so much. You've stirred the pot to have all fingers pointing at you. And now you've setup tomorrow so that Rich and Noods are suspect. I thought you might just be innocent until you said this, but then, IF you are innocent we wouldn't think anything of Noods and Rich because more likely than not you wouldn't know their roles anyways. But the fact that you are "eager" to see what happens to them after you are lynched pretty much confirms that you are mafia and are either setting them up or screwed up yourself.

So with that, I am actually leaning towards scenario #2.

I like the votes on Annie and Gun too.

Really? Nobody is that dense.

That just confirms it even more in my mind...you are mafia and trying to set up Noodles and Rich.

Annie: the fact that both you and gun voted and split w/o saying anything else. There's no rule about having to vote in your first post, so it's scummy. I like my vote on wood, but both you and Gun are still on my list.

Wood: Thanks for dodging the entire gist of my post. Anyways, it's not that posts-within-a-post are hard to understand but when you quote them, they don't show up as such.

I understand what you are getting at Kash. If Wood does show up last minute he is a shoe-in for tomorrow's vote...no questions asked. Hopefully Ice takes his post as him quitting, whether he was PM'ed or not, so we don't have to waste another day on Wood. It's just ridiculous.

Noods, you do make a good point and I had forgotten that you did not play last game. Weird play by Wood. The main reason I do not suspect any behind the scenes plans is because I really don't see either you or Rich doing something to this extent. Rich especially. He can easily glide through a game without having to resort to cheesy tactics like this. If Wood is a communicating mafia, I don't see you two as his teammates.

If he is non-communicating, well then at least we are down one and know that he was just trying to stir things up. Same thing goes for if he is innocent except we're down an innocent who had no idea what they were doing, and in the end could have hurt the town more than helped. I hate it when people use that to justify lynching an innocent but I don't think anyone who has been following the game could look at what Wood has said and not believe that he was anti-town, no matter the role.

Can you please tell me why, after all of this, I would move my vote in an attempt to save him?

 

[Kashta]

To be honest Kash, I have only had vague suspicions about Jpap thus far, and haven't gotten a clear read on Dawg, Annie or Zaffy. I've only got a few minutes now, but the post that you made outlining what you see makes sense. I'll have to put more time into this line of thinking tonight when I get home.

Also, I'm not sure about rich. I'm just trying to put out there what I see. And it seems to me like rich (at the very least) isn't helping the town.

Thanks, Jbradt.... This I'm happy to accept at least for now. I wasn't suspecting Pappy either as all of this took place because he appeared to be working for the town side up to the point where all those retractions started to fly. Then last night when Dawg posted his theory about Woody possibly being the evil journalist... I wondered if Dawg might be the townie journalist and from his role, he paid more attention to thoughts of who his evil counterpart might be than the rest of us were doing.

It wasn't until I re-read the last 150 posts (mostly after Wood's threat he might UD on us) that I began to see how well coordinated this might be IF those players were evil instead of innocent. And knowing that 3 of the 6 remaining mafia players are communicating with each other. But even I can can't say definitively whether this possible connection is true or not. We have no actual evidence to point either way... not yet.

I decided to go ahead with my suspicion as it stands now and cast my vote on Jpappy. And I've posted all I could to explain this possible connection for everyone else to review and pick apart. Mind you, I am more interested in hearing what other players think of these possiblities besides the ones who appear to be working together in their efforts to protect Woody, lynch Gunslinger, protect Annie, and cast suspicions toward Rich, DD, and MC.