Mafia #67 - 50/50 -- The Play

[Kashta]

Suspects? It's hard to zero in on anyone in particular right now. I intended to vote Lab Rat today and still might. But since that vote can wait a while longer, I'm paying close attention to whatever else still develops, if anything. If we had to vote right now, I'd be hard pressed to choose a top suspect I'd feel confident about killing.

Lab Rat - Undecided. Actions and argumentative posts were either scummy or ill-conceived. Could easily have been intentional (if scum), as LR knew she'd gone after the player least able to defend himself in this game. When FF was killed and revealed innocent, LR reverted back to the over-used, "I meant well but just can't help myself" and "it's a character flaw I'm working on" cop-outs. Then wonders why others hold her accountable for the fact that her case-building efforts, theories, debates, and passive-aggressive posting get in the way of the town's best interests. Sure hope LR turns out to be mafia this round and isn't just an over-zealous, misguided innocent again.

Dag - Began this game with a grudge vote against FF for no other reason, which seems more mean-spirited than it should be. Looking back through Day 1 posts, I get a sense that Dag and LR's crusdade against FF was possibly coordinated as such... one voting him, the other on attack-mode and joining the vote later... with both of them making posts intended to provoke FF even further and sway townie opinion as needed to get him lynched. The best argument against the idea they were working together on this would be... this seems to be the 3rd or 4th game now where Dag continually agrees with, supports, or defends Lab Rat in these games.

Jpappy - Doesn't seem to be as objective this game as he normally is. Given that that was mostly focused on FF and his erratic posting, all I can do is reserve judgement about Pappy for another day or so.... wait to see how he plays now that FF is gone and we're discussing other subjects that come along. I figure if I compare what he does, says, and how he approaches the game now... plus my impression about him being far too committed in voting FF out, this should give me a better feel which way Pappy is leaning this time.


Noodles - Rich made a statement which rings true for Noodles... "2. Noods when she is in complete shut down mode she is hiding." I could see voting Noods for lying low... that is uncharacteristic for her when she's on the town side. But I'll hold off there because... life happens and she might really be pressed for time like many of us are (including myself). Again, it sounds annoying, but it's another case of "wait and see" for me with Noods.

Dangerdoll - I'm not picking up a scummy vibe from DD this time, so I have her leaning more neutral/possibly pro-town than many others so far. Having been through DD's posts, I wasn't able to find anything I felt would indicate that she's up to anything scummy.

Rich - Really not sure about Rich at all. Voting someone off for being a distraction is rather harsh. But not out of character, I suppose.

Annie - All or nothing. I think Annie latched on to voting FF much the same as Lab Rat did. I wouldn't be opposed to voting him for it at this point.... same as I'm leaning with a few others for similar reasons.

JB - I've agreed with a good part of his statements, so for that reason I should lean him slightly on the town side for Day 1. I expect we'll see more differences emerge though from today on because we're not locked in anymore to the single-topic focus we've dealt with throughout the first day.

Tank - Seriously needs to step up his involvement in this game. Guess Tank wins the "most likely to UD" vote for his lack of participation.

I'm not getting a read one way or another yet for either JL, Ice, Wizard, or Madcrawdad. That seems unusual because I'd normally have a stronger impression by now which side I believe they're on after this long... even if that turns out to be incorrect.

Overall... I think most folks are being careful in this game. Probably due in large part to the 50/50 format and, again, because most of Day 1 was spent going back and forth over FF or Lab Rat's case against FF.

 

[IceH2O]

Still working that out.

JB how can you not have any suspects 1 way or the other or even just an idea of who you think. I know you've said Jpap and Lab but you really have no opiions on anyone else at all?

Because I can't help myself I have to answer this one last post even though I'm already in bed...

Wiz, if that's not the pot calling the kettle black then idk what is. Do you forget how narrowminded and sure of yourself you were last game that I was scum? I did everything I could to try and tell the SC I was an IW without breaking the no RC rule. The scum team got my message as did the farmers. Somehow the SC totally missed it. So I don't think you have much ground to criticize me about being narrowminded. I freely admit that I can get swept up in my theories, it doesn't make me scummy.

And how many times, when I cry that I'm innocent am I actually innocent? I think you'll find it's a vast majority. Again, I'm trying not to default to that, but after a while of getting kicked around like a soccer ball in a world cup match it's where I tend to go when innocent. When I'm scum I simply slide back into the shadows, much easier and safer that way.

Statements like this always raise a red flag in my mind.

I didn't answer this fully before. My reason for not wanting to lynch him was that I WAS NOT CONVINCED HE WAS SCUM. The other part was an idea that came to me that turned out not to work out.
The town, however; decided that it would be better to read his posts for what suited their purposes as opposed to what they said. Even after it was pointed out.

Labby, I've singled out you and Pappy pretty clearly so far for not only twisting words and being closed minded, but also for voting extremely early.

A lot of people have kept up with saying "it's day 1, we can't know anything". I've paid attention to that because that's the SAME PLOY I USED LAST GAME to great effect. Turns out we had a 60 page day 1. If anyone in this game (Tank, it's your first game so I'll exclude you from this statement) is going to tell me they couldn't have learned SOMETHING from lynching ANYONE else, then you're either a liar or looking only to further your own agenda.

You ask me who my top suspects are... I say again: throw a rock. With all this confusion caused by THE TOWN we know barely anything more than yesterday. And it's our own fault.

If Lab and Jpap have been singled out then why aren't they considered your top suspects?

I post what I can, when I can. I'm a firm believer in quality over quantity.

That hurts my feelings Lab. Also makes me think what the hell else "pro town" I could have been doing. Believe me, I thought FF was a scumbag, and once that was proven, I had a sweet list of suspects for today. That list got tossed in the trash.

I agree Tank is a clueless noob. Innocent I hope, because I don't see anyone rattling his cage at this point without looking like an opportunistic scumbag. If he's scum, he's quite likely gonna skate through this game relatively unharmed.

That being said, I do think the whole FF fiasco did generate at least one good lead. JB and his "pocket mafia" ideas.

I have you leaning innocent at this point, and will be watching carefully those that will be pushing for your lynch today. I believe you just thought you had a scumbag in your crosshairs, no different than me.

While some may argue I am being led down the garden path by a pretty Doctor, I guess that still beats plowing fields with my retarded sister.



So let me get this straight JB. With scumbags in every direction, behind every tree and under every rock, with evil lurking just a coin flip away as Mad might say, you have NO suspects. Not even one?

I have at least three suspects at this point. Pretty good ones too IMO. You're one. When I get home from work I'm going to spend some time reviewing your posts, particularly your ideas about pocket mafia.

Noods is next on my suspect list. Lurking in the shadows, constantly getting "caught up" are surefire scumtells. I'm always trying to get "caught up" when I'm a scumbag. I think a few votes on Noods would get her posting.

Then Rich. Rich who you might ask? Seems he only posts after his name is mentioned, is very non committal, and even stated he voted for FF to stop the conversations about him, not because he found FF's posts particularly scummy.

What are your thoughts on Mad then Annie? He hasn't really kicked many bushes and the questions he asked have been mostly to Tank,plus he voted FF.

Just want to be sure I don't get accused of posting to little.

I think Jb is scum. He is picking his spots to say see, side stepping questions beautifully.

I think LR is innocent and yesterday is just her overdrive personality thinking she was on to something.

I did vote just to shut FF up. Probably will again.

I have no real thoughts on any one else just yet. I stink at getting feels from inane drivel. I will just keep plucking along.

In a game where numbers mean everything you were willing to vote out a player not because he was scummy but because he was a distraction?

You could have been kicking bushes.

Instead you took what had already been posted about FF, called him scummy, and voted. All in your first post.

You threw some questions at JL but never followed up on his responses, in which he asked you about your thoughts on FF's playstyle compared to last game. Also questioned FF...he responded too. You didn't have anything else to say?

Mentioned the low posters at the same time (Rich and Noods) and said you were tempted to vote them but that was just filler IMO. I doubt you were even considering moving your vote since you'd been focused on FF from the start.

I feel like I need to agree with Jpap on this. You said you prefer quality over quantity but there isn't any quality to a post that just repeats what others have said.

So what made you change your mind, Rich? Lab was your number one suspect yesterday even when she kept pushing so I'm concerned about why she drops all the way down to innocent.

The fact that you've used nearly the same reasoning for thinking that Lab is both scummy and innocent is what I find suspicious...not that you changed your mind.

I again have to agree with Jpap. I can't see how these 2 reasons can be switched.

 

[IceH2O]

This is a continuation of my morning post which I'll quote so its all together.

Isn't that the same reason you lynched FF? I think JB has a better grasp so I'm not planning on seeing a bunch of confused posts that incriminate him even more.

When I read JBs posts last night nothing stood out. Seemed the most argumentative part was when Jpap asked him if FF isn't on a team how could be slip and JB admitted to not thinking it all the way thru.Not liking his last post though. How do we not learn from FFs lynch? My suspect and why list will explain.

DD bothers me in the fact that 2 days now she has questioned Labs motives but she stayed on FF and voted with Lab,be interesting where her vote falls this time.

I have to go in early for inventory so I'll finish my suspect and why list later.

Covered Lab and DD now the rest


Mad- Not kicking bushes and when he has its been mostly directed at Tank. I was very surprised that Mad interpreted the post the way he did.

Rich has moved up. His post seem almost like he is annoyed that he is being asked questions. To go from thinking Lab scummy and then innocent based on the exact same reasoning is disturbing in the least.

Annie- quite the follower this game, no real original thoughts even though he thinks quality is better then quantity he hasn't posted anything of either.

Noods is to quiet.Says she doesn't have time for the game.I'm okay with that. But since she is posting you'd think the posts would be of substance not fluff.

Dag- I believe is on the same team as Lab she even posted a protection of him in a post I'll find after dinner.

JB has been non commital even though he is thinking along the same lines as I am. Man up dude.

Jpap I'm wavering a little bit on. I thought he was for sure scum and still could be but I like his questions today.

Tank no clue really.Could be distancing with the questions from Mad that are softballs. Or Mad knows if he went hard after him we'd be on him like we are Lab.


I'm leaning the others innocent for now. Kash,JL,Wiz

Kash hasn't posted much but I like the quality.

 

[Madcrawdad]

Sorry folks. I've been busy painting bedrooms today, and haven't had a chance to look at the thread since early yesterday evening....hope to catch up in a few hours after dinner.

 

[IceH2O]

If FF shows scum, voting for him will not clear anyone totally, though it would make me trust some a bit more than others. But Dag voting for him means absolutely nothing since it was literally a random vote.

Could be a ignore Dags vote post don't look at him...maybe

As far as Dag goes, that's just the way he is...try growing up with him... :grinno:

This post is in reference to DDs statement "

Dag seems to blame others for doing things that he is doing as well... except heavy handing his posts in order to make them seem like he's innocent "

 

[jpappy789]

Agreed.



I'm thinking JB too.

What do you think about his idea that we could learn more from lynching anyone but FF. Did that seem like his motives were scum driven to you?



I know, I laughed out loud.



Like I said before, I post what I can, when I can. I don't expect I'll be getting the coveted ACVille citizen of the year award anytime soon, but I'm trying.



Hoping someone will latch onto this Pap?

I have alot going on in real life atm. I am trying not to make that an excuse, and to keep caught up on the game.

My whole operating theory yesterday was FF was a scumbag and the ones trying to defend him were as well. Rather than continue to add to the confusion of yesterday, I decided to wait until FF was lynched and go from there.

Guess what? FF wasn't a scumbag; but I still believe there were scum trying to save him because they thought, like myself and several others thought, that he was NCM.

JB and JL come to mind in this regard. Ice to some extent. Maybe more, I havent had time to carefully review yesterdays posts again.



In this post you're either:

#1: actually concerned about my lack of follow up.

#2: a scummy weasel looking for your next lynch.

Which one is it? I will be following up on this question.

If someone latches on then fine, maybe they too think you're a scumbag.

Your whole opportunistic approach is exactly what concerns me. Jumped on FF and didn't follow up on the questions you did ask. You just went right back to insisting that FF was scum.

It seems Lab did most of the work for you. Me to a lesser extent.

Those who generally "defended" (I'm using that word loosely atm) FF were Ice, JB, Kash, and JL somewhat. Who did you question out of all those people? One, and it was one post that was later ignored when JL countered with questions directed at you.

For implying that it was so clear to you that FF was scum and those "defending" him were too you didn't do anything to back it up at all. You wanted to stay out of the confusion? Why? It was clear to you apparently so what more could you add?

I await your follow up.

 

[jpappy789]

Kash: to what extent did you agree with JB's assertion that we should have kept FF around even if he was mafia?

 

[Dagamoth]

How could you not see that coming? Atleast Lab was willing to concede that FF could be innocent.

Now besides losing the battle of wits with Lab, why was FF so evil, beyond a doubt? Why have you twisted what he said, his repsonse to Lab was for HER, if she was mafia, to investigate him. Lab took that and ran with it. Once Lab had her sights on FF it was over.

Your random vote was then a vote with a reason, even Lab felt your vote was random. So besides blending in with the rest of the players voting FF, why did you vote for FF?

Please back up your reasons with some quotes from FF. I think you have helped put words in his mouth.

When I said I didn't see that coming I meant it. But it is true that even in roulette it can land on double zero twice in a row. In my mind it was just extremely unlikely that FF could be innocent. I voted for FF because I cannot think of a single reason that anyone beside a mafia would want to be investigated by the mafia. Investigations are NEVER helpful to the other side. Even if FF meant for his comment about getting investigated was meant only for LR it still doesn't help the innocents to have someone investigated. In a format like this where half the players are mafia a comment like asking someone to investigate you to prove you're innocent is foolish and very scummy.

I am still trying to figure out why FF would even had said something like that.

However I am curious as to the people who were saying that FF was innocent and shouldn't be lynched. How did you learn to translate what FF said to what FF meant? Is there some kind of cipher that you can clue the rest of us into for the next game? Or is it that you are mafia and were just willing to consider FF a lost cause?

 

[Dagamoth]

Labby, you keep insisting on reminding people that whoever wanted to do whatever "even if FF was Mafia".... well, FF wasn't mafia... why do you keep saying that... yes, I see you are making points or whatever but the moire you put in the post "even if FF was Mafia", I think you are confusing people or trying to...


Curious, JL.... with Kash being almost non existant in this game, what would make you lean her innocent? I can agree that both Ice and Kash are probably targets for being investigated, I cannot see the reasoning for leaning Kash, the one who's posts as an innocent are incredibly long, as an innocent.

Noods and Dag, I will admit Noods has not put much effort into the game but I think I read that she was going to be a little busy so I can see her infrequency, but Dag seems to blame others for doing things that he is doing as well... except heavy handing his posts in order to make them seem like he's innocent when all it says to me is that he's got some kind of over confudence for some reason... most times, this over confidence equals Mafia.

Who and what am I blaming others for? I don't recall blaming anyone for me voting against FF. I <---- thought he was scum after asking for LR to investigate him. There is no reason that any innocent would want a mafia to investigate them. There is no positive for you or the innocents if the mafia investigates an innocent. Also I don't have confudence but I was confident in my vote for FF.

 

[johnlarson66]

When I said I didn't see that coming I meant it. But it is true that even in roulette it can land on double zero twice in a row. In my mind it was just extremely unlikely that FF could be innocent. I voted for FF because I cannot think of a single reason that anyone beside a mafia would want to be investigated by the mafia. Investigations are NEVER helpful to the other side. Even if FF meant for his comment about getting investigated was meant only for LR it still doesn't help the innocents to have someone investigated. In a format like this where half the players are mafia a comment like asking someone to investigate you to prove you're innocent is foolish and very scummy.

I am still trying to figure out why FF would even had said something like that.

However I am curious as to the people who were saying that FF was innocent and shouldn't be lynched. How did you learn to translate what FF said to what FF meant? Is there some kind of cipher that you can clue the rest of us into for the next game? Or is it that you are mafia and were just willing to consider FF a lost cause?

I vote to lynch Dagamoth

Dag, I asked you to use some sort of quotes from FF to argue your case. FF was defending himself against Lab's attack. There is nothing FF could have said after he made his first response. He was in a battle of wits that he could not win. He got so messed up that he did not even know what he was saying, he got twisted in his own defense.

You have played enough with FF and should have tried a little better to understand what he was saying and compare his breakdown to past breakdowns. A major fact is that he did not get OMGUSy on you or DD. He really never went after anyone that went after him. I think he also felt Lab was innocent.

FF got a little post happy and also got very confused. He was trying to have fun. His nervous energy was used against him and anyone that attempted to "defend" him was called scum. I pointed out that I felt his game play was not the same as it was the last game and that he had resorted to some old habits.