Mafia #89 Trouble in Kindergarten

DD, Ice even based his vote because he says I attacked noods for a singleton vote. Look at sat and yesterday and you will see I questioned noods and I questioned Rich. When they answered my questions, I understood their thoughts at the time of the posts they made and moved on to try to find something else to question. You only claim linking me and Ice as scum buddies as what you have done. I agree there hasn't been much to find in the thread but there has been something.

slow down here, Wiz. I also noted there was something about Kash's post. To talk more on that though, the numbers were explained, and as it was, it made sense to me so I posted pretty quickly back to back. When I read jb's thoughts on it in regard to showing a sort of confidence over it, I have to say, I do see that too but I usually push the numbers posts off because I don't usually find much about them and try to trust whomever did the math, did it right.... so I didn't think about it until jb posted her thoughts on it..... so Kash is one I suspect but not sure how much

This is the weakest part of your argument DD. This seems to be the only thing I can find you saying you have done. The problem is, Ice doesn't push the heat off of scum buddies. We have heard from Ice himself that he will throw a team mate under the bus just to make himself look good to the town.
That might be the only thing you have seen because you have kept me occupied..... which is also why I have been most suspicious of you.
 
by the way, I never made a promise that I would be the smartest in the class but I am doing my best in keeping up, following up, and answering all the points you want me to touch on.
 
Here I quote the parts from FF's post that were directed toward me so I can answer him. I cut out the other stuff because it's a real long post.

Kashta attacks Wiz, JB, Rich, and Noods, all in one block of posts. Doesn't vote any of them, doesn't decide who she thinks is evilest, just muddies the water with opinions and questions. Could be digging, could be more sinister.

FF, I went through the thread that first night and had some questions to ask. So I pulled the posts I wanted to question. These were the posts that made me say, "wait a minute, what?" or "really, why do you think that?" None of that was an attack against any of them. I was asking questions to get responses so I could then decide whether I felt their answers made sense or not. I wasn't making accusations against players or calling anyone scum. I asked direct questions and was clear about it when I disagreed with someone and why.... to find out how they would respond to the question(s). Sometimes this also stimulates conversation from others that gives us other clues worth considering. That's pretty simple and straightforward.

What do you expect the town to do, cast premature votes based on nothing and build cases against people for no reason without bothering to ask questions first? I didn't know who I was going to vote for yet, I wasn't even trying to figure out my vote. Nightfall wasn't until the following day so there was time for that later. This was the first time I got into the thread after posting my hello/game on post.

Wizard - When I read his post questioning the singleton voters after nightfall, I wondered... wow, where does he come off doing that when he just did the exact same thing himself? It was hypocritical. At the time he voted, Wizard was a single voter too. And since he left his vote there knowing he wouldn't be back before nightfall, it was a bit much to see how fast he turned against others who did (for all he knew) the exact same thing he did.

JB - How do you see my question as an attack, FF? I noticed he pruned a quote he replied to, so I asked why he did it. When JB answered that, I thought his explanation made sense. I was satisfied with the answer I got from him so I dropped it there.

Rich and Noods - I disagreed with Noods and had just typed up a post questioning her and saying why I disagreed with her. Rich had also posted essentially the same thing, so I directed the same question to him too. They both sounded like they might be trying to push our votes against either Wizard, DD, or Ice just because those are the 3 who voted UN. I didn't believe that was being objective. They'd both said they thought 1 of the votes against UN was probably scum. It's dangerous for us to make blanket statements like that...... or base our lynch on something that "could be" but just as easily might not be, so it made me suspicious. That made me wonder if all 3 of those voters might be innocents the scum team were hoping to set up for night 2.

In the end for Day 1, I was still undecided about Wizard, so I left him neutral. I leaned JB a little more innocent than evil, so I focused on other posts/players. And I was most suspicious of Noods and Rich... decided to leave my vote where it was on Noods since I hadn't found anything else scummy enough to be sure of as voteworthy.

Why tentative? You made a case against her, did you know she was innocent before you voted her? I see no other reason for a "tentative" vote on Noods there.

I called it tentative at the time I posted an early vote because I was still undecided about other players and thought I might change my vote later. That way everyone would know it was subject to change instead of being definite. I also didn't see she had answered my question in her response to Wizard. Part of my reason for voting her was thinking she'd ignored my question or was trying not to answer it.... which is why I said that in the post you quoted above. I figured if I asked her to answer my question again and voted her at the same time... I might get her to answer me.

After this, Noods posted that she was sorry she didn't reply to me separately but her answer to me was in her reply to Wizard.

SO, all in all, my list would be:

DD: for defending herself badly and because of the Ice comment and the time it took to lay down an answer.

Kashta: For her "digging" that never really went anywhere, and for the "tentative" vote on noods after creating an argument for voting her.

Ice: For being an ***.

Wiz: Seems a little off to me, but it's been a while since I played with him so it could just be me.

And that's all I have to say right now.

I ask questions (or dig) to find out if there's anything worth going somewhere. Sometimes there is; sometimes there isn't. I don't know if someone's reply to questions will ring true and sound innocent/reasonable or seem scummy/suspicious until after they have time to read my question and post their response.

My "tentative" vote on Noods was partly to poke at her or prompt her to answer my question (as I hadn't seen her answer to me in her reply to Wizard). And I did disagree with Noods. The more I thought about it, the more I suspected her. I think it's wiser for the town to base their votes on scummy behavior than to just say I'd bet at least 1 of 3 voters is scum and leave it at that.
 
There wasn't much I didn't agree with from Kash until these posts








I don't see Rich as being confused, just didn't make it as clear what his thought was at 1st. But even after she saw what he meant she still felt the need to push the issue. Just because he was wrong in his thought doesn't make him evil.

Knowing what we know about LG being an innocent makes the posts Slushie pulled on Kash even more incriminating.

Red - Perhaps that is true, Ice. Maybe you are innocent and questioning. Rich explained himself and you accepted it so you dropped it.

Or, perhaps this was a little distancing between teammates. You just went through the motions of questioning Rich for appearances sake. Then figured the town would follow along and absolve him from suspicion or wondering just because you did and it sounded good to others too.

Although we've agreed with each other about a few things, we disagreed about Rich. I've been leaning you innocent most of the game, but I also wonder if you are evil, who you might be protecting, distancing yourself from, throwing under the bus, or whatever else.

I don't know. It's real hard to tell in your case.

If evil, I could also see you voting Wizard early fully intending to change your vote to me later, thus swaying the town to view me as scum too. Then if Wizard gets lynched and flips evil, it's real hard for us to pin you down for that because you voted him at one point.

I don't know who's good or who's evil but these are my suspects.

Leaning/more suspicious - Ice and Wizard. Undecided - JB and Rich. I'm neutral on DD and FF.

I'm also nowhere near placing an actual vote yet. Even my highest suspects could still be innocents. I keep going back and forth about people like Ice and Rich... Just because I can see them as evil, I'm still wondering if that's right or wrong. Whoever the evils are, they're playing this very well. I haven't found anything definite enough to place my vote.

Blue - I don't follow this at all. What did the posts FF pulled from me have to do with Lady G?
 
Kash's posts have already been pulled by Ice and his son. I have to say I'm seeing quite a bit to make me wonder. FF's quotes where Kash questioned a bunch of people then didn't vote for any of them (us) is interesting. As is Ice's point about how she kept after Rich after he made his point clear enough that even I could understand it. I'm seeing a good case for Kash atm.

Okay. If I end up being your strongest suspect, then I'll get your vote. Ice referenced the posts FF pulled and I've just responded to those. See if that helps you decide about me.

But then there's this:

It seems odd to me that Kash seems so confident about the numbers. I know she was questioned about it and explained it as logical reasoning, but there seems to be confidence here that is troubling to me. I had thought it was DD who had posted this, so I didn't even think of it when thinking through Kash's game, but there it is.

Also ask you to think through the possibilities and decide if you'd be confident about the numbers yourself.

1. 2 mafia vs. 10 town (plus 4 are PRs) - That would be 16% mafia against 84% town. I've never seen any game weighed this badly against the scum. Totally unfair starting out for the evil team. As Zaffy has previous game mod experience and he patterned this format from some other game Madcrawdad modded, I seriously doubt they started with 2 evils so I ruled that out as a possibility when the game started.

2. 3 mafia vs. 9 town (almost half are PRs) - That's the standard game format 25% evil vs. 75% good. I thought this was the most likely choice when I set up my spreadsheet. I've seen games range mostly in the 25-33 percent range.

3. 4 mafia vs. 8 town (half are PRs) - This would be 33% evil. Sometimes we get games where one third of the field is scum, but it's not very often this high. (I think that vortex time travel game we played had 33% evils.) But 4 mafia is no longer a viable option because the game would be over already if this were the case.
 
Red - Perhaps that is true, Ice. Maybe you are innocent and questioning. Rich explained himself and you accepted it so you dropped it.

Or, perhaps this was a little distancing between teammates. You just went through the motions of questioning Rich for appearances sake. Then figured the town would follow along and absolve him from suspicion or wondering just because you did and it sounded good to others too.

Although we've agreed with each other about a few things, we disagreed about Rich. I've been leaning you innocent most of the game, but I also wonder if you are evil, who you might be protecting, distancing yourself from, throwing under the bus, or whatever else.

I don't know. It's real hard to tell in your case.

If evil, I could also see you voting Wizard early fully intending to change your vote to me later, thus swaying the town to view me as scum too. Then if Wizard gets lynched and flips evil, it's real hard for us to pin you down for that because you voted him at one point.

I don't know who's good or who's evil but these are my suspects.

Leaning/more suspicious - Ice and Wizard. Undecided - JB and Rich. I'm neutral on DD and FF.

I'm also nowhere near placing an actual vote yet. Even my highest suspects could still be innocents. I keep going back and forth about people like Ice and Rich... Just because I can see them as evil, I'm still wondering if that's right or wrong. Whoever the evils are, they're playing this very well. I haven't found anything definite enough to place my vote.

Blue - I don't follow this at all. What did the posts FF pulled from me have to do with Lady G?

Well I'm not going to lie, you are my 2nd choice, we all need to settle on 2 players to vote on and if my vote does no good on Wiz and is needed on you I would switch. But I'd have no reason to switch off Wiz if he is the leading vote getter.

I should have written it better, I meant knowing LG and Noods are innocent coupled with my feelings on Rich.

I'm not convinced DD is evil as you all have seen from my list, from what I remember this is usually how she plays.
 
you posted one at 630 I fixed it at 730 and it was right above DDs posts.


Ok so I hate this game because I couldn't sleep last night thinking about it.

I vote to lynch Wiz



The explanation above with vote count was the icing on the cake and helped verify my thoughts after the wasted vote, to much agreeing with me and this is what really got me after thinking.Maybe Wiz would like to explain.....(Though he will say he didn't know what the count was) Why didn't you vote Noods when her wasted vote was so glaring to you? Especially when it was a tie at the time you placed it?

My 2nd suspect is Kash I don't have time right now to go thru the posts and pull

3rd suspect I can't narrow down. I think FF but obviously I have no proof and don't know if they would throw a no vote out, I'd think at least a made up case and vote but maybe not if in a hurry and just a post and run.

After the way Kash went after Rich even after the explanation has me leaning him innocent. DD I feel is innocent and JB is the one I'm most unsure of.

so in order I'd say
Wiz
Kash
FF/JB
Rich
DD
Ice

There wasn't much I didn't agree with from Kash until these posts








I don't see Rich as being confused, just didn't make it as clear what his thought was at 1st. But even after she saw what he meant she still felt the need to push the issue. Just because he was wrong in his thought doesn't make him evil.

Knowing what we know about LG being an innocent makes the posts Slushie pulled on Kash even more incriminating.

I don't know how I missed this the first 4 times I read it.

I am evil for too much agreeing with Ice yet Ice said there wasn't to much he didn't agree with Kashta on.
 
you posted one at 630 I fixed it at 730 and it was right above DDs posts.


Ok so I hate this game because I couldn't sleep last night thinking about it.

I vote to lynch Wiz



The explanation above with vote count was the icing on the cake and helped verify my thoughts after the wasted vote, to much agreeing with me and this is what really got me after thinking.Maybe Wiz would like to explain.....(Though he will say he didn't know what the count was) Why didn't you vote Noods when her wasted vote was so glaring to you? Especially when it was a tie at the time you placed it?

My 2nd suspect is Kash I don't have time right now to go thru the posts and pull

3rd suspect I can't narrow down. I think FF but obviously I have no proof and don't know if they would throw a no vote out, I'd think at least a made up case and vote but maybe not if in a hurry and just a post and run.

After the way Kash went after Rich even after the explanation has me leaning him innocent. DD I feel is innocent and JB is the one I'm most unsure of.

so in order I'd say
Wiz
Kash
FF/JB
Rich
DD
Ice

Ice, is this what you were refering to by saying I agreed with you too much?

I don't get it. You asked a question ofeveryone and I answered your question that just happened to line up with your thoughts on the subject. If you notice, you also voted noods in that post, and while I did have issues with noods, after she answered me fully and I thought about it I just didn't get a scum vibe from her. You also are calling me for voting DD while it was tied.

I could have taken an easy road and voted Noods but I didn't think she was scum. I can't really tell about Rich didn't have a read on him as I can never seem to read you. I didn't agree with Rich's post voting you but maybe you sucked me in with the way you posted. Reading posts hours after the fact is different than reading them aas they are being posted.

I find it interesting, that when Ice posted this morning he totally disregarded my answer to his question. That, if I remember correctly is very un-Ice like.

Did my answer explain things to clearly as to why I didn't help lynch one of the twins?
 
When Rich posted about Ice's vote switch to UN was the easy vote as apposed to how noodles mad her late vote switch I didn't agree. I even asked Rich if maybe he caught something I didn't see.

As I look back on it, I am beginning to think he was right. I got tunnel vision when it took so long to get an answer from Noods and that played right into the scum teams hands.

D1 we had UN with 2 votes and a bunch of single votes. If one of the single votes were to switch to any other vote getter we would have ended with a tie. That would have meant no lynch. Ice being the third vote on UN pretty much made it a done deal. The odds of it being tied up after that were astronomical.

Why settle for a probable innocent UD and your hit when you can insure the lynch as well thus taking out 3 innocents on D1.

Yes my vote last night was wasted. Had I voted Ice I don't think we would be in the position that if we get it wrong we lose.

As I think about it Ice's reaction to Bally being hit seems a little over the top. "Why Bally?" That was perfect. I fell for it and spent all my time trying to find the answer to that. There goes Wizards tunnel vision again.

Guess I fell for the Ice trap this time. I don't think I am wrong about DD but no one else seems to see it. I think the back and forth between DD and me was planned in the scum den.

Of the two I think Ice is more dangerous. He has a subtle way of getting the town to go the way he wants to direct it.

I vote to lynch Ice.

I wish I could be here for night fall but I really don't see how I can be here before 5pm PST and night fall is at 4.
 
"Just a reminder, the 3rd recess bell rings at 4:30pm pst. I need the name of whoever has those crayons by then or else recess and Christmas are canceled."
 
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