problem with german blue rams and golden rams

He said ammonia/nitrate/nitrite are all at zero. I never pre-treat my water for water changes either, but I don't have any Rams or any other sensitive fish in my non RO tank.

Depending on what conditioner you are using, I would imagine it might be possible the tank is getting "overdosed" by adding the chemical pre-fill as mentioned above. I also wait until after I add water to add Prime, and I tend to dump it directly into the outlet of the filter just to be safe. I don't know if it matters that much, but it gives me peace of mind.
 
I'd be curious of a couple things on the water tests. Is the OP using liquid kits or test strips? If using liquid have the test kits been calibrated?


What is your substrate and how deep is it?
 
Welcome to AC. I doubt if it's anything you did or didn't do. You may find the answer in these quotes from fish experts Bob Fenner and Neale Monks on WetWebMedia.com



"The mortality rate of Mikrogeophagus ramirezi is incredibly high in captivity, and I simply don't recommend them any more unless you have a special "hot" aquarium for them and can source locally bred or wild-caught stock."

"These fish should be sold with a warning level -- easily 9 out of every 10 sold dies within a few months."

"Be crystal clear about this, Ram Cichlids need virtually no hardness and a very low pH; 2-3 degrees dH, pH 5.5-6. One thing many people don't understand is that in very acidic water bacteria barely grow. This has two effects. It makes biological filtration unreliable, which is why Zeolite is used instead. But, and this is central, it also means fish used to such acidic conditions hardly need much of an immune system. There's nothing for them to get sick from. Move them into harder, less acidic conditions and BAM! they get overloaded with bacteria. This phenomenon is very well understood now, and has been demonstrated as the reason why wild-caught "blackwater" fish such as Discus, Chocolate Gouramis, Liquorice Gouramis, Pikeheads, and yes, Ram Cichlids have failed so often in captivity. To some extent this has been bred out of Discus, but the solution with Ram Cichlids has been to "juice" them with antibiotics on fish farms. Once the poor cichlids are removed from fish farm conditions and they aren't receiving antibiotics, they get sick. Every single bloody time as far as I can figure."

"Not a cichlid I recommend, and well known for being difficult to maintain, despite being widely sold."
 
I was thinking the same thing. Is it possible you are not stirring your substrate often enough... so when you do clean it gases are being released in levels high enough to hurt the fish?

I have GBR's too, and I add the Prime by dosing the whole tank then adding the water and I have never had an issue with water changes. I do all my tanks that way and no issues. So, I do not believe it is that.
 
stormywendyann said:
I was thinking the same thing. Is it possible you are not stirring your substrate often enough... so when you do clean it gases are being released in levels high enough to hurt the fish?

I have GBR's too, and I add the Prime by dosing the whole tank then adding the water and I have never had an issue with water changes. I do all my tanks that way and no issues. So, I do not believe it is that.
Click to expand...

Have had this happen first hand to some rams. I use Sand in their tanks and unless you have a lot of plants and MTS to stir the substrate it can happen. I think this is one that gets by many of us and we dont realize it or even think it. It not just an issue for sand either.. Seen it happen in gravels and such if deep enough.
 
Jannika said:
Welcome to AC. I doubt if it's anything you did or didn't do. You may find the answer in these quotes from fish experts Bob Fenner and Neale Monks on WetWebMedia.com



"The mortality rate of Mikrogeophagus ramirezi is incredibly high in captivity, and I simply don't recommend them any more unless you have a special "hot" aquarium for them and can source locally bred or wild-caught stock."

"These fish should be sold with a warning level -- easily 9 out of every 10 sold dies within a few months."

"Be crystal clear about this, Ram Cichlids need virtually no hardness and a very low pH; 2-3 degrees dH, pH 5.5-6. One thing many people don't understand is that in very acidic water bacteria barely grow. This has two effects. It makes biological filtration unreliable, which is why Zeolite is used instead. But, and this is central, it also means fish used to such acidic conditions hardly need much of an immune system. There's nothing for them to get sick from. Move them into harder, less acidic conditions and BAM! they get overloaded with bacteria. This phenomenon is very well understood now, and has been demonstrated as the reason why wild-caught "blackwater" fish such as Discus, Chocolate Gouramis, Liquorice Gouramis, Pikeheads, and yes, Ram Cichlids have failed so often in captivity. To some extent this has been bred out of Discus, but the solution with Ram Cichlids has been to "juice" them with antibiotics on fish farms. Once the poor cichlids are removed from fish farm conditions and they aren't receiving antibiotics, they get sick. Every single bloody time as far as I can figure."

"Not a cichlid I recommend, and well known for being difficult to maintain, despite being widely sold."
Click to expand...


Hi Jannika,

While this WAS an issue a long time ago its not the case anymore. If you look now a days the GBR's and in fact many rams are now Captive bred like I do with mine and sell to my LFS as well as to people online. Even the major suppliers that alot of the Big name stores and smaller LFS are getting captive bred rams and Discus. It used to be thought that discus had to be kept in LOW Ph very acidic and they were very fragile and had to have super soft water and super high temps.. Alot of the same thoughts were of Rams. But MUCH of this has changed greatly over the years.

I keep my rams in planted tanks In a PH ranging from about 7.0 up to 8.0. The water has a KH of 6 to 9 DKH and ive kept them as high as 14dkh. GH is around 8 to 12GH. They get weekly water changes of 70% roughly. I dose the tanks dry ferts via EI dosing. Nitrates are anywhere from 10 to 80ppm and Phosphates around 3ppm. 0 Ammonia and zero Nitrites with high quality filtration and current. I also use Co2 in the tanks at around 30ppm. Temps run around 79 to 81 degrees. NO ILL effects what so ever. If I had the kinda luck they say with Rams 9 out of 10 dying Id give up the hobby let alone my rams and the breeding program.
 
i dont think its the air pockets. i have never once seen anybody say that the air pockets from their substrate killed their fish.

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constevens said:
Hi Jannika,

While this WAS an issue a long time ago its not the case anymore. If you look now a days the GBR's and in fact many rams are now Captive bred like I do with mine and sell to my LFS as well as to people online. Even the major suppliers that alot of the Big name stores and smaller LFS are getting captive bred rams and Discus. It used to be thought that discus had to be kept in LOW Ph very acidic and they were very fragile and had to have super soft water and super high temps.. Alot of the same thoughts were of Rams. But MUCH of this has changed greatly over the years.

I keep my rams in planted tanks In a PH ranging from about 7.0 up to 8.0. The water has a KH of 6 to 9 DKH and ive kept them as high as 14dkh. GH is around 8 to 12GH. They get weekly water changes of 70% roughly. I dose the tanks dry ferts via EI dosing. Nitrates are anywhere from 10 to 80ppm and Phosphates around 3ppm. 0 Ammonia and zero Nitrites with high quality filtration and current. I also use Co2 in the tanks at around 30ppm. Temps run around 79 to 81 degrees. NO ILL effects what so ever. If I had the kinda luck they say with Rams 9 out of 10 dying Id give up the hobby let alone my rams and the breeding program.
Click to expand...

While it is possible to buy locally bred and raised GBRs, it is still far more common to find fish-farm raised GBRs that not only recieve a bunch of antibiotics, but steroids as well. Captive bred does not neccessarily mean healthier. While with discus it is absolutely the case that the majority of domestic discus are much more hardy...it varies greatly from breeder to breeder. It is the same with GBRs...captive bred does not always equal good quality stock.

I find your water parameters curious....you have no nitrates. Even in my planted tanks I ALWAYS have nitrates. Either your tank is not cycled or your test kit is not working properly.
 
No, nitrates are 10-80 ppm but no ammonia or nitrite
 
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