Mafia 103...the play

[Nepherael]

What if Einstein would have said such a thing?

Pretty good deflection. You have not ceased to remind me yet during this game to keep my eyes peeled for the other scum out there. I hope the innocents don't forget to watch other's comments as much as they're watching JB and pap right now

 

[Nepherael]

Which is why JM backing you up a second ago hasn't slipped by me. It's too illogical for someone to make that connection let alone having someone agree with them. It looks more to me like theres 2 votes for pap over there and his teammates are trying to defuse the situation. Those replies are exactly the reason I voted for pap at the start. Instead of tying it up I wanted to see how people would handles the scales tipped against pap. Your replies have solidified my vote against pap

 

[rich311k]

So you are not open to any possibilities, just what your closed mind sees. I have never said I thought the above was the case just that it is possible and I have seen some doozies in this game over the years.

I am very glad you are happy with your vote, I hate to tell you but I have no clue what the vote tally is.

 

[Nepherael]

So you are not open to any possibilities, just what your closed mind sees. I have never said I thought the above was the case just that it is possible and I have seen some doozies in this game over the years.

I am very glad you are happy with your vote, I hate to tell you but I have no clue what the vote tally is.

Hmm what substantial posts have you made yet to open my mind besides egging people on, deflection, and philosophy? On top of what I've already said there's still no substance against either JB or pap except to wonder if they're in cahoots. I asked if anyone can elaborate on why that might be especially since you and JM have both mentioned it and you spoke to it twice yet there's nothing substantial offered up.

On top of that I don't believe anyone who actually caught up or kept up with what's going on today can claim they don't know the vote count since JB dropped that bomb, voted for pap, and I followed up with the same vote. That looks even more suspicious.

 

[dirtydawg10]

OK I started with JB first because frankly his posts came first and I started reading his first. I can see I'm going to need some questions answered before I place my vote. So here's JB's only "Game related" post for D1.

I probably won't be around tonight, so I have to vote as well.

I vote to lynch RB for defending obviously flawed grammar.

Not much of a post...it is D1 though.

Here's D2...

Another night 1 down. Seems like we don't know much more than before. Glad we've got a good doc though... nice shot!

JB that last sentence has me confused. Are you talking about/to the same person in that sentence? Does the Doc get a shot? That's my first read on that but maybe you can explain it better.

Then you go after RB a bit...

Arbee, I have a question:



WTF is up with this post?

I realize that you're a grumpy old dude, but that still doesn't explain this to me.

1. who cares? it's a basic game and i bet most of the vets haven't read the rules. at least not fully.
2. again... who cares? your post was number 14. not much real content to read before that.
3. i don't believe you were actually found innocent by anyone other than yourself. but i digress... who cares?
4. ALL your votes? what about if there's actual evidence? i realize we're not to that point yet, but once clues actually start to surface, will you be ignoring that to go with your "gut feeling?" you felt FF, and we see how well that went.
5. i actually liked this one. it was funny. did it hurt?
6. this is just BS. i don't believe for one second that G actually gave you anything other than a role. and apparently no one else did either, 'cause no one even mentioned it to my recollection.

So, taken on it's own we have a pretty much meaningless post... which is pretty common for RB. But why be so pot-stirry so early in the game? Then with all the BS defending your obviously fallacious grammar. I just don't get it.

Maybe I'm being overly simplistic in my thinking (I left that one floating there for you to hit out of the park) but to me it's the mafia (those are the bad guys in case you're confused) who skim posts and try to stir up crap just to stir up crap. Those things on their own don't really mean a whole lot... especially this early in the game, but:

You've got a whopping 8 posts already! I haven't seen you post that much in several days in previous games. Makes me wonder if you have a reason to be especially interested in this one... like maybe a mafia role?

I realize that I haven't played in a while. I further realize that I haven't really slept in a couple of days and that I am probably a little loopy. But this started out as a gut feel, and has become more interesting the more I looked at it.

Then Labby a bit...

WIFOM much? What's with the drive by, Labby? Do YOU think that's what happened?

Then this...

At this point, I've gotten caught up.

I still don't know what to think of RB. But I never am. It very well could have been clever day 1 chatter, but it still feels like more than that. Really nothing more than a gut feel here so far.
AAF seems to be pushing pretty hard at Neph.
I noticed that Labby kind of "floated" the idea about Neph stopping in late to drop a vote. It doesn't seem like her to leave a drive by idea without any other thoughts at all. and I don't believe for a second she was sorry to lose FF.
Pappy seems pretty low key so far.

Nothing is nearly enough to vote on for now.

To me it reads RB, AAF and Labby are your suspects

Then another list...

I don't have a whole lot of time today between yard work and going out later, so I'll try to be concise about where I stand at the moment.

Neph: this is an interesting situation. What it comes down to for me is that it feels more like a newb put on the hot seat and going to far to defend himself. We've seen this time and time again with new players. I'm not discounting the fact that he could be scum, but I'm not feeling it... yet. I'm also a little taken aback by how many people piled on the questioning.

RB: I definitely still suspect RB, but I don't have enough to place a vote at this point.

Labby: I may have misspoke when I used WIFOM. What I was trying to get at is that she stopped in to pose a question that we really cannot know the answer to. Neph says he forgot and checked his email at just the right time, many don't believe that. My point is that it is not like Labby to throw out a question like that without giving an opinion of her own. Come to think of it, I haven't seen any new information added by Ms. Rat so far. A couple questions, a couple responses to questions... no real content whatsoever. I've seen Labby play when she was busy before, and she's always been about kicking bushes and trying to help... when she's innocent. I haven't seen a bit of that so far.

Pappy: I don't know what to think about Pappy. Then again I never do. I need to see more to make a decision.

Dawg: No real read yet.

AAF: still think it's funny how he pushed so hard at Neph. Then as others have pointed out backtracked pretty quickly. It definitely doesn't look good for him, but this happens a lot with the dude.

UN: posted largely crap so far. It's kind of funny to me how he questions Neph and AAF, then ends up voting RB.

I've got to think some more before I'm ready to vote, but it will likely come down to either Labby, AAF, or UN at the moment. I'm leaning toward Labby, but I'd hate to lose her if she is innocent. Hopefully something will happen to solidify my feelings one way or the other.

You declare Lab, AAF and UN. As has been stated no Rich.

Not ready to vote AAF or Rich in this next post but the previous post AAF is on your list?

Stopped in to get caught up. The exchange between AAF and Neph is interesting but I'm not ready to vote either of them right now.

<b>I vote to lynch Labby.</b> I think I've stated my reasons pretty thoroughly.

Sent from my MB865 using MonsterAquariaNetwork App

So a vote for Lab. OK your top suspect...I can see that.

Just got home and got caught back up on a first read through.

Yes, I have thoughts on Rich. There's other people I didn't mention, why did you throw out Rich's name in particular?



Maybe tricky was the wrong word. What I was thinking is that if AAF is evil and Labby innocent, would AAF think of jumping on her comment so he could later say "Labby started it".

The more I read and think about it, the more confused I become. I'm leaning toward wanting to trust Labby at this point. I'm not totally sold on either AAF or Neph. UN is becoming way more interesting the more he talks, but he always does. I kind of want to vote Zaffy, but he's not playing, so that doesn't help...

I'm glad we have a little extra time tonight. My vote will likely change before nightfall, I'm just not sure where yet.

Now you lean toward wanting to trust Lab. You mention you have thoughts on Rich but don't say what those might be.

I always do the same thing when I'm confused... start looking in directions I haven't looked in yet. And I noticed something interesting.

AAF starts getting called out about Neph. I can't exactly remember where in the process this happened, but Rich says this to AAF:
Seems to me that Rich doesn't have much of a problem with Neph here. He even goes on to say that Labby is more interesting.




Then with no real explanation, both of those are out the window and Neph gets his vote. Talk about some back-tracking.

It struck me as odd. I also feel like Rich has been more active in this game than most, but for the life of me I can't remember a thing that he's said. I'm used to Rich not posting much, but when he does he posts content. This is a very fluffy game for Rich so far. I'll have to go back and look a little more closely, but this seems odd to me. I guess at this point it's a "gut feeling".

Then a short finger pointed in Rich's direction.

Actually, in looking again, AAF was listed twice. So there were 9 in the game, which leaves me and Rich that I didn't comment on. Would you like to know my thoughts about myself too? I still think it's interesting that you focused on Rich not being there as opposed to the information that was there...

Can't get over why people call you out on Rich not being on your list.

Wasn't purposeful. Like I said, I commented on the people who were on my mind when I wrote the post. It was an oversight.

Rich was not on your mind for your list...ok

Retract on Lab vote for UN...

Very well, I retract my vote to lynch Labby and vote to lynch UN.

Below is another poke at Rich...

here are all your posts that are mildly game related, Rich. As it stands, you've posted 23 times at the time I'm writing this. That seems like a lot for you at this point in the game.


Even the posts that are game related are marginally so at best, and there have been some things to talk about so far. Your usually laid back in your game play, but as I said before, it's usually pretty concise and game oriented. This, IMO, is not like your usual game at all. I just wanted to get them all in one place so the town can make up it's own mind.

Hey, UN... I didn't mention JM here either... want to grill me about that?

Again, how is it if you read my post so carefully that you noticed I didn't mention Rich, but after all your "fact reporting" you didn't notice that I skipped JM? I think you dropped the ball there, Jimmy Olsen.

Again about why Rich wasn't on your list.

Then retract on UN and vote AAF

I don't like how the thread went nearly dead since JM voted. I retract my vote to lynch UN and vote to lynch AAF.

D3...

That was a bad night. I need to reconsider things.

I'm out for the night. Or at least for a few hours if I can't sleep again.

Reconsidering things.

Wow... quiet morning. And here I was all worried that I would have a ton of reading to catch up on.

So I've done a lot of thinking since last night, and I'm sure I'm right on Rich. His posts are so fluffy that if you rolled them all together you could have a nice pillow. The only problem with that is it would smell like :bs:. This vote is not likely to change barring some pretty low-probablility events. There's no doubt in my mind on Rich.

That being said, I believe UN jumped on me about forgetting Rich from my list because they are teammates. If he really spent that much time comparing my list to the player list, he would have noticed that AAF was noted twice and looked for the appropriate list. As it is, he did not. He missed JM (as did I) because he didn't spend nearly as much time as he would like the town to believe. It's easy to see how hard he was trying to get me lynched through that whole exchange before nightfall. And he came out guns-a-blazing when he thought he caught me up. To be clear, I'm not 100% sure on UN, but it is a good educated guess based on his actions.

Which brings me to my final... I'll use the word suspect, but I believe I have Pappy dead to rights. I was looking back through Pappy's game and he's scum. I'll try to explain. I've played with Pappy as scum and as innocent. When he is innocent, he has no qualms about getting into it and mixing it up with anyone in the game. He'll point out every little thing and ask questions, and follow-up questions, and follow-up follow-up questions until he is satisfied with the answers. I can tell you from personal experience that he is never satisfied with any answer. This game is not like that. This game sees a Pappy who asks soft-ball questions and lets answers go all to easily. I called him out for playing a low-key game earlier and his response was some nonsense about not having time. :bs:. Not that I disbelieve he is short on time, but that's not really an answer to the point I made. My point was about content, not quantity. Pappy is scum, and we can't abide this scum to live. He is far too dangerous for the town.

I vote to lynch Pappy. This vote will not change until he is lynched. Then we can get to Rich and their little toady, UN.

I've been going through it in my mind, and I can't figure out if there are 3 or 4 scum. But this gives us a real nice start, and if the game has not ended with UN's death, I'm sure the other will be clear by then.

Pappy... admit to the town that you're scum and deliver your teammates and it may better your chances in the ACville afterlife. I doubt it though.

Above you were planning to vote Rich then changed part way through and decide to vote Pappy. Below you say this to clear up your starting sentences.

I just wanted to explain the bolded line from my post above. I was going to vote for Rich when I started the post. When I realized how much more dangerous Pappy is to the town, I erased that vote and voted for Pappy. It's not a huge deal to me because they both need to go, but Paps needs to be first in my mind.

For Rich and UN... what do you think about Pappy's play so far? Do you give any credence to my thoughts on him? Would you be willing to vote for him? I don't honestly expect either of you to take a stand on this one way or the other, but I'd appreciate it if you'd put your thoughts out there for the town's record.

You are sure you are right about Rich and you believe you have Pappy dead to rights.

Then a poke at me...

Good timing, Dawg.

As it happens, I was just looking though your posts. You may be the only person to post less content than Rich. A bunch of jokes, a couple pokes as AAF, Neph and UN, and largely conversational nothing. I'm interested when you get back to hear what you think about my current suspect list. You're usually pretty on top of helping the town come up with strategies and root out scumbags. Where's that skill and experience now?

Then you say JPap needs to go.

And I never said you were sitting back... I said you were posting BS softball questions.

Townies, Pappy needs to go.

How can you not be sure of anyone on D2 and then D3 you are sure about Rich and believe JPap is scum then vote for JPap. This is the biggest problem I have with what you seem to be claiming. Maybe you can clear some of this up for me.

That being said I need to take a short break and go back and look at JPap.

 

[rich311k]

Hmm what substantial posts have you made yet to open my mind besides egging people on, deflection, and philosophy? On top of what I've already said there's still no substance against either JB or pap except to wonder if they're in cahoots. I asked if anyone can elaborate on why that might be especially since you and JM have both mentioned it and you spoke to it twice yet there's nothing substantial offered up.

On top of that I don't believe anyone who actually caught up or kept up with what's going on today can claim they don't know the vote count since JB dropped that bomb, voted for pap, and I followed up with the same vote. That looks even more suspicious.

I beleive my post have been plenty substantial, I mean not up to your standards maybe but I felt they where exquisite posts. I questioned you both in your little squabble, I asked Jb about his reasoning on me. I pointed out that you should never say never. What have you done but slide along on JB's coat tails?

 

[jm1212]

I just don't see what sacrificing a teammate in such a bold manner will accomplish. If pap indeed gets lynched the only real strategic value to that would be maybe building some trust among the innocents but what experienced player would think anyone would trust them more jst because their hunch was correct? Other than that I don't see why this could be some sort of elaborate scheme. Maybe you can enlighten me to that though. I'm always interested in learning a bit more to be able to play better. Just trying to attack this logically right now

And this is where your inexperience shows. Getting rid of a team mate that has more or less been under scrutiny (or hasnt) is a classic mafia move to gain the trust of the town. both are experienced players, and i would not put sacrificing a team mate past either one. if anything, I'm pretty sure at least one of them has used the tactic in the past.

 

[Nepherael]

I beleive my post have been plenty substantial, I mean not up to your standards maybe but I felt they where exquisite posts. I questioned you both in your little squabble, I asked Jb about his reasoning on me. I pointed out that you should never say never. What have you done but slide along on JB's coat tails?

Hmm I don't remember you questioning either of us. Unless you consider asking AAF if he was so sure just to keep that dialogue going. And you asked JB a question. So you're saying asking a couple questions but never taking anything past square one is what a real innocent would be doing?

I'm sliding along with JB right? Well he's made some excellent points and really explained his reasoning well. I happen to agree with his reasoning though I can't say I've seen any in depth posts from you describing your thoughts on any important person or situation in particular so why wouldn't I latch onto what seems to be sound reasoning when there's none to be found elsewhere?

These replies are just digging your hole deeper to me

 

[jbradt]

No way in H-E-double hockey sticks! You may be showing your hand here UN.


Neph, I know you are newer to this game but it is not so easy to jump. Scum often times come out of the woodwork to try and end a game like this. The only problem is we can't make the wrong choice here. I for one am going back now to read JB and Pap's posts and place my vote. One or the other is scum from what I can see.

I agree. Both are very experienced players. That said, I've played more than my fair share of games with both of them, and neither is looking exactly golden right now.

OK I started with JB first because frankly his posts came first and I started reading his first. I can see I'm going to need some questions answered before I place my vote. So here's JB's only "Game related" post for D1.

Not much of a post...it is D1 though.

Here's D2...


JB that last sentence has me confused. Are you talking about/to the same person in that sentence? Does the Doc get a shot? That's my first read on that but maybe you can explain it better.

Then you go after RB a bit...



Then Labby a bit...



Then this...



To me it reads RB, AAF and Labby are your suspects

Then another list...


You declare Lab, AAF and UN. As has been stated no Rich.

Not ready to vote AAF or Rich in this next post but the previous post AAF is on your list?



So a vote for Lab. OK your top suspect...I can see that.


Now you lean toward wanting to trust Lab. You mention you have thoughts on Rich but don't say what those might be.


Then a short finger pointed in Rich's direction.


Can't get over why people call you out on Rich not being on your list.


Rich was not on your mind for your list...ok

Retract on Lab vote for UN...



Below is another poke at Rich...




Again about why Rich wasn't on your list.

Then retract on UN and vote AAF



D3...



Reconsidering things.



Above you were planning to vote Rich then changed part way through and decide to vote Pappy. Below you say this to clear up your starting sentences.



You are sure you are right about Rich and you believe you have Pappy dead to rights.

Then a poke at me...



Then you say JPap needs to go.



How can you not be sure of anyone on D2 and then D3 you are sure about Rich and believe JPap is scum then vote for JPap. This is the biggest problem I have with what you seem to be claiming. Maybe you can clear some of this up for me.

That being said I need to take a short break and go back and look at JPap.

Dawg... I can see your hesitation over my turn of phrase. I meant it in the spirit of nice job, good play, etc, etc. Looking at it this way, it can seem pretty erratic. I was putting my thoughts out there as I had them. If they don't always follow, it's because I make leaps sometimes. I skip around a bit and look at a lot of things before deciding a direction to travel more deeply.

Yes, I poked at a lot of people and mentioned a lot of names. Isn't that what kicking bushes is all about? And isn't kicking bushes what mafia is all about? How is that bad? Yes I took a shot at you too. You said you'd come back and post later so I didn't see the point in continuing until you had a chance to do so.. Here you are, and I'm heartened by the fact that you seem to be really digging.

I didn't say a lot about Rich or Pappy from the start because a) things make sense to me as patterns, you can't establish a pattern early on... it just doesn't work like that. and b) because how much good would it do to say "you're suspicious because you post in x manner"? then they know exactly what I'm looking at and an easily change it.

I'll be around to answer questions if anyone has any. Other than that, my position is clear.

 

[Nepherael]

And this is where your inexperience shows. Getting rid of a team mate that has more or less been under scrutiny (or hasnt) is a classic mafia move to gain the trust of the town. both are experienced players, and i would not put sacrificing a team mate past either one. if anything, I'm pretty sure at least one of them has used the tactic in the past.

I can definitely understand if he had been under scrutiny and I don't believe that anyone in the mafia would hesitate to sacrifice a teammate but in this bold of a manner and when pap has been sliding under the radar thus far. Nah, I'm taking JB's reasoning at face value and I agree with his reasoning.

I could be wrong though. I see JB's reasoning and I applied that to what I've seen from pap in my first and only game (he was an innocent) and he isn't even in the same ballpark this time around. It lines up enough for me to trust my instincts on it.

If this wasn't going down I still would have been questioning myself about Rich too but thanks to this ordeal I've nailed him down too