20-23 Gallon Tank Community Fish Plan

[Fev]

Appologies in advance for the looong message, just trying to space it out so that it makes more sense.

What I already have x3 total:
x2 Comet Goldfish & x1 Danio (Unsure which type)

What I am "considering" getting:
X1 Male Betta (Maybe?)

X1 Set Group Fish chosen from directly below: (Set Group = 5 or more of one chosen type)
Zebra Danios (Add to whichever is the individual small one I already have)
OR Cherry Barbs OR Harlequin Rasboras OR Rainbowfish

X2 Platies,;

x2 Guppies;

X1 Pleco Catfish – Or other “smaller” variety of low level fish that eats algea

X1-2 Dwarf Gourami;

Total = 11-16 Fish (Includes Pre-Existing x3 Fish)

Actually I was considering getting a group of GloFish but you guys say they’re tacky? Can anyone say why they are seen as tacky, is it the colours??

Also I initially wanted x1 Betta and x1 Dward Gourami – somewhere online someone wrote they would get along?

Basically my brain is no good at maths and I have only had fish since about August last year, so even though I have read the notes about calculating how many fish I am still confused…

Does this look about right below? Number of fish Calculate 90 Litre Tank;

1 Gallon = 3.78 Litres
90 litres Divide 3.78 = 23.81 Gallon or approx 23.1 Gallon???
1inch fish for each gallon = (23.1 divide 2 inch approx = 9-12 fish???)

Questions;
1. Maybe it’s meant to be more simple, am I just confusing myself unnecessarily?
2. Do you average out the adult sizes or should it be literally per exact inch?
3. I was planning on eventually choosing only about approximately 11-13 fish, including the small group of
about 5 small zippy fish like the Danio’s… What does everyone think? Would that be way too many??
If so, please give me your opinions on better calculation or which of the listed fish I am considering might
be more interesting or would get along best so I can choose lower number of fish??

I want to make sure I don't over crowd the tank but unfortunately I am not very practical person and can go way overboard sometimes if I am not careful... Since they are living creatures I don't want them to die etc from being too crowded in there....

I'll cut back on as many as necessary but my hubby does want a group of lil ones for some reason... hehe
That would cut down on options for how many fish to fit though yeah?

 

[jpappy789]

The "inch per gallon rule" isn't very effective...most will say to ignore it completely. Unfortunately, there is not a mathematically foolproof way of stocking aquariums.

When it comes to your stocking thoughts, I have a few concerns...

1) Comets get VERY large, as in around a foot in length if kept properly and not stunted. They are pretty much pond fish unless you have a tremendously larger aquarium.

2) Danios are schooling fish, so I would highly recommend getting at least 4-5 more. I find Glofish tacky, and I'm not sure how well they would school with regular danios.

3) Anabantoids don't tend to mix well, even within species, other than a few of the more peaceful ones. A betta and DG will likely not do well long term in an aquarium the size you're thinking.

4) Unless you plan on getting just males, livebearers do best with a few females per male. Otherwise the males can stress out females by constantly wanting to breed. With more females the pestering gets spread out.

5) Most plecos are going to get too large for your aquarium, and definitely stay away from anything labeled as a "common" pleco. The only species I would recommend are Ancistrus spp. (often called Bristlenose plecos) or any others that stay around 4-5".

 

[Fev]

Do you think my calculations from 90 litres to about 23 Gallons sounds right??
What do you mean by "Anabantoids"?
Ok so scratch the algea eater? hehehe
Hmm so what I read about the Betta and the Gourami are wong, well I can always leave the 10-15 litre tank and get just the one Betta in there? That would be way bigger then what the small square tanks they keep them in at the store!!

I think they are Comets, unsure....

Hmm What to do with the two babes then if they are going to get too big??
We don't have our own house yet otherwise I'd set them up a pond outside.... Obviously I fell for the biggest Newbie mistake and not find out how big they'd get before I bought them last year and I certainly don't want to consider "getting rid" of them...

Anyone have any idea how fast they might grow? If they are Comets...? They are both somewhere at about 2inches now....

If they can survive for another year or so I can get them a pond once we move to our own place?
Or anyone got ideas for a portable pond set up that would be big enough at least for a few years??

 

[Symbol]

I'm a relative newbie here so others may be able to give you better or more precise information. I'll share what I've been able to glean from the research I've been doing over the past couple of weeks however.

1) Comet goldfish can get pretty large and will take up a large portion of the tank volume all on their own.

2) Goldfish are coldwater fish and should NOT be kept with tropical fish.

3) Many people advise keeping goldfish only with other goldfish (or a very few recommended species of other coldwater fish).

4) Bettas are tropical fish who prefer relatively low light and still water.

5) Guppies are generally not recommended to be kept with bettas (or goldfish for that matter).
Bettas may attack guppies (especially fancy males) since they can be brightly coloured and have relatively large fins. Bettas and guppies can sometimes be housed together peacefully, but it seems to be very much luck-of-the-draw.
Most (possibly all) varieties of goldfish will get large enough to eat guppies. (If it fits in their mouth, it's food!)

6) Be very careful about what type of pleco you get. As far as I'm aware all plecos are types of catfish. Common plecos and many other varieties can get to well over a foot long and require enormous tanks! Also, many varieties of pleco can be dangerous to goldfish. (They are also "super-poopers" like goldfish, so they require more space, filtration, and water changes than you'd expect.)

7) Dwarf Gourami are generally considered to be incompatible with bettas as they are both labyrinth fish and may be aggressive towards each other. Again, there are some folks who have managed to successfully keep these fish together, but it's no guarantee.

8) The inch per gallon rule is somewhat oversimplified. Many people dislike it as it fails to take into account your individual setup, the habits and biology of the fish, and many other factors that may affect whether or not your tank can support its inhabitants. If you are following the inch per gallon rule however, it's important to note that it is advised to use the ADULT sizes of all your fish even if they're only juvenile and very small at the moment. Also, you should count every inch of goldfish as two inches for the purposes of figuring out how many gallons you need.

Hope this helps!
Cheers,
- Symbol

 

[Symbol]

Do you think my calculations from 90 litres to about 23 Gallons sounds right??

That sounds about right.

What do you mean by "Anabantoids"?

Anabantoids are a family of fish who all have labyrinth organs. Labyrinth organs allow them to breathe atmospheric air from the surface to an extent as well as breathing water through their gills. They tend to be native to warm water which holds less dissolved oxygen than colder water and this is how they've adapted to deal with that.
Most labyrinth fish (or anabantoids) tend to be fairly territorial and can be aggressive and do not mix well with each other.

I think they are Comets, unsure....

Even if they aren't comets, they will still get fairly large. Fancy goldfish can generally be expected to grow to 8-10" if not stunted. Singled-tailed and commons get well over a foot. (Commons sometimes can exceed two feet - or so I've heard!)
Generally, the recommended minimum tank size for fancy goldfish (the ones that stay under a foot long) is 20 gallons (or about 80-90 litres) for the first one and an additional 10 gallons (40-45 litres) for each additional goldfish. Comets will need even more space still as far as I understand it.

Hmm What to do with the two babes then if they are going to get too big??

You could try to re-home them. Just make sure that the home they're going to is appropriate and the new owner(s) know what they're getting into and how to care for goldfish.

Anyone have any idea how fast they might grow? If they are Comets...? They are both somewhere at about 2inches now....

Sorry, I'm not sure how fast they typically grow. Maybe someone more experienced with goldfish could chime in here.

If they can survive for another year or so I can get them a pond once we move to our own place?
Or anyone got ideas for a portable pond set up that would be big enough at least for a few years??

I've seen people set up temporary, indoor goldfish ponds in Rubbermade containers. Just get a nice big one and set it up with a powerful filter and some plants and whatnot. Again, maybe a more experienced goldfish keeper could give you some tips on doing this.

Good luck!
Cheers,
- Symbol

 

[Fev]

Ok! So I am looking at my list again and re-arranging and deleting a few things...

But so far the changes I have made are below:
1. Not to get a Pleco;
2. Either keep x1 Betta seperately in my smaller tank or Not get one at all at this stage;
3. Get minimim of x5 Danio's once I approximate which type I already have;

My comments and questions for anyone to give feedback on please?
1. Once I decide where to keep the two GoldFish - possible Comets....
Maybe keep them in the small tank while they grow a bit more and in the meanwhile try to find them an
alternative ASAP like a portable pond of some kind for outside....?

2. I can either not get a Betta or put him seperately, E.g. Wait till I move the Goldies to bigger set up;
Then think about getting Betta and keep in the small tank?
In the meantime I'd lean more about looking after fish....

3. If I don't get the Betta, and keep the Goldies in the cold tank for now as above, then would the below work?

Large Tank:
X5 (Minimum) Extra Danio’s (Add to x1 I already have)
X2 Platies;
x2 Guppies;
X1 Dwarf Gourami;

 

[Symbol]

1. Once I decide where to keep the two GoldFish - possible Comets....
Maybe keep them in the small tank while they grow a bit more and in the meanwhile try to find them an
alternative ASAP like a portable pond of some kind for outside....?

I know that people often do use "grow out" tanks for various fish. (Smaller tanks that are used to house young fish until they're big enough to add to larger tanks.) However, I'm not sure on the details of how this is normally done. I know that if goldfish (and possibly many other fish as well) are kept in a tank that is too small it will stunt their growth and can result in various health problems. However, I don't know how to tell when it's time to move them to a bigger tank or if the current tank is still okay.

2. I can either not get a Betta or put him seperately, E.g. Wait till I move the Goldies to bigger set up;
Then think about getting Betta and keep in the small tank?
In the meantime I'd lean more about looking after fish....

I'm not sure I understand what you're going for here. Keeping a betta in a separate tank from the goldies would work, yes. Then you could accommodate their different needs with two different set-ups.

3. If I don't get the Betta, and keep the Goldies in the cold tank for now as above, then would the below work?

I don't really know much about most of the fish on that list, so I can't give much useful commentary.
I think you'd want to make sure you had two female guppies since a male and a female would result in too much chasing and two males might result in aggression.
Also, I believe that gouramis are tropical fish and thus need warmer water than you'd want to keep for the goldfish. (Not sure about the temperature requirements of the others.)

I think there are some species profile sheets on here somewhere that list the requirements (ideal temp, pH, hardness, tank size, etc.) of various types of fish. Maybe checking those out would help with working out some of the compatibility issues.

Hope this helps!
Glad you're willing to put the effort into trying to find out what's best for your fish.
Cheers,
- Symbol

 

[Fev]

Hi,

I didn't actually mean for the Goldfish to have a "grow out" tank exactly, just to keep them seperate until we are able to set up the better accomodation for them like a portable pond... But thanks!

I'll wait for a while before I consider getting the Betta but I do love the way they look! lol
Get one maybe later and as you said have a seperate tank set up for it...

(I don't know how you quote from other message but I have something to ask that you wrote)
"I think you'd want to make sure you had two female guppies since a male and a female would result in too much chasing and two males might result in aggression. Also, I believe that gouramis are tropical fish and thus need warmer water than you'd want to keep for the goldfish. (Not sure about the temperature requirements of the others.)"

I can see what you mean about being careful how many Male VS Female, but how can we be sure if we get Males or Females? We are both Newbies and I don't want our not knowing to stop us from having an attractive set of fish....
That's why my initial post somewhere on the forums was to comment I'm not sure whether it's ok to trust pet store staff, they seem to just say whatever and just give you whichever fish they are able to catch rather then act knowledgably....

It's hard to find breeders here to know exactly which is which and my husband is not exactly as interested as me in the fish to begin with, he bought the bigger tank to make me happy...
I don't want to gossip about my own hubby but he doesn't even seem to care that much if they get ill infact his attitude seems more like, well if they get ill what can we do...? just see if they survive or not...

My point being, I'm not sure I could convince him to do the work necessary to find a breeder etc or to look carefully enough if they are female etc... hmm.... complicating something so simple is frustrating.... eh

 

[Fev]

Anyone know which Forum section has more information about Guppies, Platties etc?? I am having trouble finding it...

 

[Fev]

Ok,

Bored, confused and replying to my own messages! lmao

But hey, anyhow...

I just read some more about Guppies and Platies and other info online contradicts what I was previously told (eh can't remember where I heard they get along) and with no info just yet here, I am reconsidering my whole list again....

Somehow I had the impression the Guppies and Platies would get along.... hmm... But Guppies are so Pretty! :grinyes: