75 gallon Planted Office Tank Journal

Are you dosing your ferts using the EI method? Also, how do you like the fertilizer dispenser you purchased? I just recently started dosing with dry ferts and the dispenser looks like a nifty item to have around, as long as I can convert from teaspoons to ounces :)
 
Yup!

My reactor 500 was working fine yesturday, today it seems to just be spitting co2 out a bubbles that float to the top. There is always something (wrong), isnt there!

:duh:

You should have gotten the AM100, this(500) piece of junk sticks.
CO2, light are far more critical than anything to do with nutrients FYI.

See here:
http://www.tropica.com/article.asp?type=aquaristic&id=142

This will help you achieve a management goal much better, with less effort, and better results. I also think a good nutrient rich sediment is also wise for anyone, that over thinks dosing a bit more than they really should or need to.

Eg ADA aqua soil or a DIY mix if you are cheaper.
This adds a back up in case you do not dose right, forget to dose or otherwise neglect things, which is to say, "human".

Lower light also drives things slow, so there's more wiggle room for things like dosing and particularly for CO2. I never add CO2 at night, bad for fish.

CO2 will kill your fish faster than any other thing you add or can use on a planted tank, give it respect. Nutrients? Never seen anyone kill their fish using KNO3 to date(2 + decades).

Be careful not to assume nutrients are all important, light CO2 and nutrients together, that's the focus, and where all growth starts? With light, so that's what drives all growth and the rates that cause CO2 demand and then nutrient demand.

Light is also far more stable than either of the other two.
Pack the tank full of plants from day 1.
Do not wait.


Regards,
Tom Barr
 
You should have gotten the AM100, this (500) piece of junk sticks.

I know I have gained some sort of status/infamy when I get the Great Mr Barr to respond to one of my threads! :D

In regards to the "AM100", I am not sure what that product is, but my best guess would be the "Aqua Medic CO2 Reactor 100"? If something that simple will work better, I will certainly replace the Red Sea Reactor 500.

I also think a good nutrient rich sediment is also wise for anyone that over thinks dosing a bit more than they really should or need to...This adds a backup in case you do not dose right, forget to dose or otherwise neglect things, which is to say, "human".

If I understand you correctly, having a good substrate cuts down on the need to be perfect on dosing fertz. I believe I have chosen suitable sediment, Eco-Complete, but correct me if I am mistaken. I think I also have the dosing of dry fertz in a happy place (in terms of my understanding of them). I am simply going to follow the PPS-Pro recipe, which I have already weighed and mixed, and this should last me about 130 days (I mixed 1000ml). This way I can keep it nice and simple, which I believe you are saying simplicity is important to dosing.

Lower light also drives things slow, so there's more wiggle room for things like dosing and particularly for CO2.

I believe I am in luck here, as I only have 2.2 wpg, which people consider low-medium light. I like more wiggle room! :thumbsup:

I never add CO2 at night, bad for fish. CO2 will kill your fish faster than any other thing you add or can use on a planted tank, give it respect.

Here is where things get a little crazy for me (and other people I assume). 1/2 the people I respect and trust about planted tanks say DONT do co2 at night, and the other half of the people I trust and respect say it's OKAY to run co2 24/7. Hmm, who to believe? I guess I need to try it for myself.

Be careful not to assume nutrients are all important, light CO2 and nutrients together, that's the focus, and where all growth starts? With light, so that's what drives all growth and the rates that cause CO2 demand and then nutrient demand.

I will read the link you posted, thanks for the info.

Pack the tank full of plants from day 1. Do not wait.

I wish I could have had plants from day1, but I really have no idea when I would have this all pulled together, and ordering from at least four vendors, scattered across the country made things arrive at different times, etc. I am also learning a lot as I go, and for the most part I think I am going pretty well. I guess I could have waited until everything was here to even start, but I wanted to be able to take my time. Now that everything is here, running, except for plants, there will be no more delay. I have already paid for a large shipment of plants, and I am eager to get them into the tank.

I am going to leave co2 off until I get more plants in this tank, as there is currently only one large Amazon Sword, which will be tossed once my “real” plants arrive.

I wanted to thank you (and everyone who posts in my thread) for taking the time to write a detailed response, as this is how all us newbs learn the trade.

-The Geek
 
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Are you dosing your ferts using the EI method? Also, how do you like the fertilizer dispenser you purchased? I just recently started dosing with dry ferts and the dispenser looks like a nifty item to have around, as long as I can convert from teaspoons to ounces :)

I assume you mean this? yes, easy to use, it costs $5.00, and for my tank (75g), one mixture will last 130 days. I am not using EI yet, I am using PPS-PRO, which is another simple dry fertilizer recipe. I may switch to EI sooner than later, depending on how Mr. Barr reacts to PPS-PRO :nono:. I think he probably approves of this simple method as well.


DSC_2364.JPG
 
AM 1000, not 100(sorry), the 1000 is much better for adding CO2 to a tank this size, the 500 is more for maybe 20-40 Gal tank max. Add as much flow as you got to the CO2 and mixing it good in the tank.

This will help a great deal.


If I understand you correctly, having a good substrate cuts down on the need to be perfect on dosing fertz. I believe I have chosen suitable sediment, Eco-Complete, but correct me if I am mistaken.

Well, EC has nothing to offer really, ADA As or the worm castings, or DIY soil methods do. For many, it's too late once they are at this stage.
But it can really help and reduce any issues and makes things like weekends, vacations, general neglect much easier and simple to handle.

This stuff will happen also.

Fertz or being perfect with it is not an issue UNLESS you are trying to add limiting amounts. Slightly limiting is okay, strongly limiting is bad.

You also fail you get 100% efficacy from your CO2 and your lighting if limit a nutrient/s. See Tropica's explanation using light and CO2:
http://www.tropica.com/article.asp?type=aquaristic&id=142
CO2 may be treated like any nutrient that's limiting.

As far as light and any limitation or stress:
pp600239f1.jpg


You cannot talk about nutrients or test them if you do not know what the light and CO2 are doing. EI addressed this a decade + ago very well, since I used MH's at 4 W/gal as an upper bound for PAR, and cranked the CO2 up to 30-40ppm ranges.

If you limit PO4, which PPS does do..........you end up with hard to remove GSA on glass and Anubias. I'd modify it and add more PO4.

PMDD is what PPS pro is really, with a little PO4 added, but not enough.
See here, it pre dates PPS pro by well over 8 years and was widely used:
http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Fertilizer/pmdd-tim.html

Hardly anything new. Toss a little PO4 in there and it's almost verbatim......
Nor was EI, see at the bottom, there's the infinite series dilutions as well.

My thing was to make it simpler than using scales etc........or test kits.
PPS pro just took that idea and added water changes. It's not simpler or better, it's too lean to make nutrients independent in many tanks.
PMDD+PO4 is a more accurate label. I suggest a richer version if folks dose daily works better than say 2-3x a week with dry powders:
http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/PMDD.htm

Folks in the UK like it.
I have another version up on my site as well.

I also use non CO2, Excel and other methods, as well as support lower light + sediments ferts etc. If you are concerned about waste, excess, management, reducing the pruning frequency, less algae etc.....then it starts with lower light.

This is independent of any dosing nutrient method.

I can do that method with any dosing scheme and change a little here or there, they both/all add the same thing. Same with sediments that are rich in N and P, they still add it and plants can get at it. So some suggest they do not need to dose anything using soil once they set it up for months.

Thing is, what works better and what is the best management for you?
Most tend to do some neglect, many will not buy a scale and play chemist, many are very turned off by all that. While I have a very research oriented side, and have done a lot more testing than most, I still realize people are human and have habitats and things come up. I'm no different.

I'd much rather have you understand light and CO2, nutrients are the easy part. I use those same type of dosing bottles for the traces and any other liquid I add. They are convenient.

I feed fish daily, so I dose daily, but I go off for a week or two often.....so I have a back up in the sediment and simply reduce the light down a tad. I come back, and the tank is fine after 2 weeks etc.

2.2 W/gal of PC or T5 lighting is on the medium high end for me.
Read Poppy's PAR data on T12 vs PC vs T5 on TPT forum for more there.

My tanks are deeper than yours and I use less light.
As far as CO2, Amano and myself both say do not do it.
I'll let you decide who knows what they are talk about more.

If you believe that less is better, then adding CO2 only when you need it, and adding lower light(because the demand is also less, so less is required) would be your goal, if..........you really cared about "less is better".

Why add CO2 at night? There's simply no good reason to do this if you have a good sized tank like yours, and a solenoid will pay for itl;sef in 2 refills, simple: you waste 60-65% of every tank refill having the CO2 on when you do not need it, then you hassle getting the tanks refilled mor eoften as well.

That alone, but wait, there is more; fish health. the no# 1 killer of fish in planted tanks is not NO3 or any nutrient..........it's CO2. This is a simple easy to ask statement you can ask around and see for your self.

Folks gas their fish carelessly every week on these forums. Every week.
KNO3 over dose? No one I've met has ever done it, so where's the risk?
What can we do to reduce this risk?

Less light is one thing.......another is to add it only during the day light cycle. Fish/shrimp respiration is two parts; O2(so have good current) and CO2.

So when we add CO2 during the day, it's also when the plants are giving off O2, so we have high CO2+ high O2, things are fine. Since we only add it for 8-9 hours etc........if the rate is too high, too much etc, again, we get more wiggle room than a chronic setting, which is not strong at night to gas the fish, but is weak when the plants need it during the day.
In effect, I can add more for an 8-10 hour burst during the day than anyone can 24/7. Give your fish a break at night.

We only add CO2 to amplify plant growth and reduce CO2 competition between species. No other reason. A little more fish respiration is fine for a few hours daily. Much better than 24/7.

As far as who to believe, welcome to the internet.:pc:
This ain't no peer review process. It's information, but it is not knowledge.
Some good, some bad, some old and not updated, some quackery, some misinformation. Like an aquarium, the system is only as good as it's filter.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 
Psst... you need to get like 30 of these cuties in your tank! :drool:
corysnail.jpg

For size comparison... that ramshorn is about the size of a nickel. :p:

Okay, :rolleyes: I guess you could also go with 10-12 aeneus corydoras... or pandas!

:rofl:

corysnail.jpg
 
AM 1000, not 100(sorry), the 1000 is much better for adding CO2 to a tank this size, the 500 is more for maybe 20-40 Gal tank max. Add as much flow as you got to the CO2 and mixing it good in the tank. This will help a great deal.

Regards,
Tom Barr

I will need to read and re-read your post so I understand it all, and commit it to memory. On your first point, since I have to spend more money to replace the Red Sea Reactor 500 anyway, is the Aqua-Medic Co2 Reactor 1000 my best option at ?<$100.00, or is there even a better choice?

Would hooking the Aqua-Medic Co2 Reactor 1000 up to my eheim canister 2217 outflow be a good place to put the AM1000 before water goes back into the tank, or do you recommend a seperate pump and hose arrangement?

As far as CO2, Amano and myself both say do not do it. I'll let you decide who knows what they are talk about more.

If you believe that less is better, then adding CO2 only when you need it, and adding lower light(because the demand is also less, so less is required) would be your goal, if..........you really cared about "less is better".

Why add CO2 at night? There's simply no good reason to do this if you have a good sized tank like yours, and a solenoid will pay for itl;sef in 2 refills, simple: you waste 60-65% of every tank refill having the CO2 on when you do not need it, then you hassle getting the tanks refilled mor eoften as well.

That alone, but wait, there is more; fish health. the no# 1 killer of fish in planted tanks is not NO3 or any nutrient..........it's CO2. This is a simple easy to ask statement you can ask around and see for your self.

Folks gas their fish carelessly every week on these forums. Every week.
KNO3 over dose? No one I've met has ever done it, so where's the risk?
What can we do to reduce this risk?

Less light is one thing.......another is to add it only during the day light cycle. Fish/shrimp respiration is two parts; O2(so have good current) and CO2.

So when we add CO2 during the day, it's also when the plants are giving off O2, so we have high CO2+ high O2, things are fine. Since we only add it for 8-9 hours etc........if the rate is too high, too much etc, again, we get more wiggle room than a chronic setting, which is not strong at night to gas the fish, but is weak when the plants need it during the day.
In effect, I can add more for an 8-10 hour burst during the day than anyone can 24/7. Give your fish a break at night.

We only add CO2 to amplify plant growth and reduce CO2 competition between species. No other reason. A little more fish respiration is fine for a few hours daily. Much better than 24/7.

As far as who to believe, welcome to the internet.:pc:
This ain't no peer review process. It's information, but it is not knowledge.
Some good, some bad, some old and not updated, some quackery, some misinformation. Like an aquarium, the system is only as good as it's filter.

Regards,
Tom Barr

Okay, I like the auto on/off with a timer setup for the lights and co2. I actually already purchased the timer before the "24/7 co2" crowd tried to convert me, LOL. So, as soon as I get plants, you have convinced me shut down co2 (and obviously lights) at night. :iagree:

I will like to post some additional thoughts regarding your lengthy post later in the day.

:goldfish:
 
Psst... you need to get like 30 of these cuties in your tank! :drool:

Okay, :rolleyes: I guess you could also go with 10-12 aeneus corydoras... or pandas!

:rofl:

Very cute, however, other than cherry barbs, I dont want to add anything until I get the plants in here. Mostly, because I have no idea how much room will be left after the addition of 65+ plants. :eek3:


I mentally can't even think about fish right now. It's funny, these planted tanks almost end up being more about the plants, even though fish are the whole reason to do tanks. If you want plants, you need (more) lightin, co2 in most cases, certain substrates, fertz, and you are really limited on fish selection, since you dont want your plants torn up, or eaten. Seems like it's inevitable to end up with common "community" type fish. I am not saying this is good or bad, I actually dont know who I feel about it. Like I said, I am too mentally exhausted from all that goes into getting a planted tank off the ground to think about fish, LOL.

After the plants are in, I will give full attention to the fish issue(s). :thm:
 
Haha same with me, you put in all this effort for the plants and then second come the fish. You first start out with saying "Only 2 plants", then "ok, maybe a couple more", then "$250? ok fine...", later "$200 for CO2, well I guess if it's best for the plants" and finally "I hate this look needs to be redone!" and you still haven't gotten any fish yet. This is my personal problem. Just saying, depending on what foreground you are thinking of getting, you may want to reconsider having cories.
 
I completely agree. Once you start getting into planted tanks, it seems that we buy fish to accent our plants instead of the other way around, but having a nice planted tank really helps to set off the colors of the fish and makes a more natural/comfortable environment for the fish as well. For me, having a beautiful and successful planted tank is more challenging than keeping fish, which is what drew me in to planted tanks.

I unfortunately haven't had a good experience with my panda corys. I did a lot of research about them and everyone recommended them for their great personalities. But mine are really skiddish. They hide behind the plants in the back of the tank and every time I get close to the tank to look at them they just swim away to the other side of the tank. It's very aggrivating. I haven't seen any issues with them up-rooting any or my plants though. I've got some dwarf grass in the tank and it's doing fine.

Geek, you should be able to grow quite a bit with 2.2 wpg. I've got a 65w compact fluorescent straight pin hood over my 29 gallon, giving me approx. 2.2 wpg and my plants are doing quite well. Unfortunately, going by the wpg rule is the same as going by the gallon per inch rule for fish. It's not relevant to our current lighting technology and is more a myth than a rule. If you have good coverage so all your plants get plenty of light and you see good growth, then you'll be fine. Like Mr. Barr said above, he grows plenty of plants very successfully with less than 2 wpg. The trick is getting your CO2 dialed in correctly so that your plants can take advantage of the light that's there. I wish I had the money to buy a pressurized system. DIY is starting to become a hassle and doesn't have the accuracy I need.

You seem to have everything you need for a successful tank! Hope to see plants soon!
 
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