all tank raised cardnial tetras

went to the finarama site and most of the links dont work. what other fish are produced by this region? Who ever started this program was an envisonist (sp?) and a genius. That is truely amazing what several scientists and thousands of natives have done to feed their families and save the environment. does anyone have the water chemistry of the waters around that area? It would be interesting to hear from anyone that actually went to the area. If i remember correctly, dont most of cardinals die each year in the dry season?????
 
I haven't been down there myself, but I can tell you the general water chemistry you'll find in their native habitat. Water is generally 5.5-7pH depending on the area, soft with a low gH which can vary anywhere.
 
nat is it true that the temps are 80 plus??? I have heard everywhere from 78 to 85F. There is different opinions on the best temp for the animals???? Thanks in advance!
 
I'm sticking to my guns on suggesting that the Cardinal Tetra does indeed suffer somewhere around 80% die-off from river to consumer's tanks. Every customer I spoke with yesterday said the same thing, many of whom no longer carry wild-caught Cardinals for that very reason. Handling kills fish. Graders kill fish. Nets kill fish. Fewer steps in the process keeps a fish healthier. Distributors may not see this, wholesalers may not see this, hobbyists certainly do. Perhaps this is why they'll pay as much as $4.00 apiece for a Cardinal Tetra. Marine folks have already realized this- look at how many people are trading and selling aquacultured corals. The "new frontier" of the industry is in ornamental marine aquaculture for several reasons, the least of which not being survivability.
The save South America project is all well and good, but from what I've seen coupled with personal experience, and backed by professionals shows to me that you're trying to avoid exploiting the rainforest by exploiting the rainforest??? I'm not trying to be petty and I'm not trying to throw low blows, but I can't help but believe that if a fish can be raised in captivity rather than being removed from what is admittedly, on all ends, a fragile environment; then by all means captive raise it!
 
Yes the cardinals do prefer the higher temps. Its not uncommon in the wild for them to be exposed to water temps up around 90. During the night it may drop back down to the high 70s but on average its lower to mid 80s. This is one of the reasons many people keep Cardinals in with their Discus, because they do come from the same type of environment, and they handle the higher temps discus require extremely well. Neons on the other hand come from areas where the water temps remain lower, pretty much always in the 70s, these fish, if exposed to temps above 80 for extended periods of time, will die off.

Seller, if you and your customers are reporting 80% die offs, your doing something wrong. Its that plain and simple. I spoke to two of my friends last night down in FL, who told me that they consider 5% a high mortality rate when importing cardinals, and that simply 80% is absurd, there is no way to make money off cardinals with those types of mortality rates, and they wouldn't be importing them if they did lose that many fish. In the same token wild caught discus are just as hardy as their captive bred compainions, and have maybe a 2% mortality rate, if that high.
 
Sustainable 'exploitation' will be the salvation of many wild places and species. People who don't have a stake in an area don't protect it and don't manage it sustainably. Those who rely on a habitat are willing to take care of it and manage it as a resource. The same holds true for land, water, and animals. There are many situations that support this--do some research on crocodiles in India and Australia, bears in Eastern Europe, tigers in India....
 
Nat,
The fish weren't dying here. They usually weren't dying in my customer's tanks. The fish were dying in the consumer's tanks. Now, go back to the original post that started this thread. The consumer reported major success with captive raised fish! Major damage to gills, internal organs, and slime coat takes a while to show up. All of this damage increases exponentially every time a fish is handled- an issue that you have avoided through this whole discussion. The Cardinal Tetras we ship are all Florida Raised. They are handled many times less than an imported specimen. We have received excellent reports. It would be asenine to say that tank-raised fish are not healthier as a whole. Happy hobbyists fuel this industry. Hobbyists are happy when their fish live. Buying Florida Raised fish doesn't guarantee a 100% survival rate, however, it is unquestionably higher than imported Cardinals.
 
FishSeller said:
Marine folks have already realized this- look at how many people are trading and selling aquacultured corals. The "new frontier" of the industry is in ornamental marine aquaculture for several reasons, the least of which not being survivability.
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FishSeller please understand that I am not having a go at you and I was not going to say anything about this topic b/c to be honest I dont know alot about it. But please do not compare tetras with coral. The reproductive cycle and growth rate of coral is many, many times slower than a tetra's. The reason why coral is being propagated is because it is not veiwed as being sustainable at rate it is being taken from reefs(hense the great prices, obviously there are other factors involved as well). Coral reefs are very fragil living organism's which are absolutly vital to the lives of hundred's of thousands of other organism's, to upset this balance can have devastating results. This however is to my understanding is not the case with tetras, I will add that there has to be a balance with tetras as well, but comparing taking corals which is more like comparing the taking of a rainforrest itself is more to the mark. So the point you are trying to make ,is to my understanding what Project Piaba is promoting, the, I quote "sustainable" wild caught tetra's and not the destruction of rainforrests, which in laymans terms is not taking too many so as to bring levels below recovery. I my eyes the example you have given is a poor one and jmo but it dose nothing for your argument. :)
 
David,
I was speaking more in the concept of raising specimens in captivity. What is the point in buying something with a high motality rate when you have the option of buying something with a low mortality rate?
 
FishSeller I can understand your point of veiw very well. If the mortality is as you say then I can only hope that the importers of these wild fish can improve their methods. On the other hand other people have made a good argument about saving the rainforrest through project piaba . Maybe there should be a movement to promote breeding through the people of the amazon, this would then creat jobs and income and in doing so saving wild tetra's, this could also reduce handling if done proporly. I dont know ,I dont have all the answers. I was just concerned that you compared corals with tetra's which imo cannot be compared, but like I said I was not trying to have a go you and I hope you can understand that. ;)
 
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