Anothre Cycling Question

[Luca Brazzi]

Actually I think that may be the case because I recently realized that I made a mistake in my fishless cycling. I think that I was supposed to cut back on the ammo once the ammo eaters first consumed my 5ppm. Now that I reread the article, I was supposed to cut back by half the amount that it took to get 5ppm in the first place. I didnt do that.... What I did was I kept adding 5ppm ammo every day... by the end of the day the 5ppm was back to 0 but I should have cut back to 2.5ppm additions. I think that by doing this I created way more ammo eaters than I needed, and at the same time suppressed the growth of Nitrite eaters.

So I will drastically cut back on the ammo now.

I know I have at least some Nitrite eaters because my Nitrates were way over 100ppm before the water changes. But there arent enough to consume all the Nitrite the ammo eaters are generating.

 

[JSchmidt]

I dunno... I never cut back the ammonia to half from my 5 ppm dosing level, and I don't see any suppression of nitrite-eaters. I don't think ammonia levels of 5 ppm are enough to inhibit growth of those bacteria. Never have been for me, anyway...

Jim

 

[RTR]

I tend to agree with Jim - I'm not certain what the reasoning was on Chris' cut-back of the ammonia titer after nitrites are running. Sometime I'll have to ask him about it.

But I also never adopted the revised 5ppm titer anyway. The original 3ppm did the job for the tests I ran for myself. I don't overcrowd and rarely overfeed.

The higher NH3/NH4+ levels can cause problems for folks w/low KH water. Alkalinity burn out with massive nitrification has pH crashed a number of tanks.

 

[Luca Brazzi]

Question...

Is the amount of NItrite that the ammo eaters produce directly proportional to the amount of ammonia they have to consume? In otherwords if I reduce the ammo, should the amount of Nitrite produced also be reduced?

And

How long can the ammo eaters live with 0ppm ammo?

 

[RTR]

1 NH3 -> 1 NO2 -> 1 NO3 Just one nitrogen in each of those, so yup, directly proportional, but the working concentrations are quite different. As nitrates are normally the endpoint, they build up to higher levels.

Several days, but why? Once growing and metabolizing well, it is not the best to starve them any more than necessary.

 

[Luca Brazzi]

Im trying something different now...

I did another water change today to dilute the Nitrite concentration. The ammo I added yesterday is gone and Im at 0 ppm ammo, and about .5ppm Nitrite.

I added about 45+ small fish (3 bucks worth). Guppies, Rosy Reds. They will be my Ammo generators from now on.

So far only 4 have died. I think the guy at the LFS had a point when he said that fishless cycling wont grow the variety of bacteria that a fishy cycle would. I need fish poop to do that.

I think that all I need to do now is to monitor the Nitrite level, and maybe change the water in the sump every couple of days till the cycle completes.

I plan to get very young Africans so as they grow, they can munch on the surviving guppies every now and then till they are gone.

 

[RTR]

Since the ammonia we read in tanks and which is toxic for fish comes largely from the fish's gills, I think we can safely say that the guy in the LFS does not know enough about fish tank biology to come in out of the rain. Take his words for what they are worth, self-serving mythology. It worked, he made a sale, and can look forward to more if his feeders introduced disease to the tank.

Good Luck.

 

[Luca Brazzi]

I hear ya. I know Im taking a chance with possibly introducing disease. He may be wrong however, I dont think this guy is looking to intentionally screw me up so he can sell me more fish since he knows for a fact that Im not buying my Africans from him.

 

[RTR]

Well, he obviously knows nothing about fish's ammonia metabolism, so is talking through his, er, hat to start with, so I don't know what else he is trying to do. Nor does he appear to understand nitrification of disolved material is the water - fish poop is not dissolved waste. So my take is that he is a salesman, period. Fine, that is what he is there to do, but when he distorts fact to do so, my opinion of him and the store in which he works are about as low as they can get. Neither he nor the store would get my business.

 

[Luca Brazzi]

Again... I hear ya.

Although... even if he is slightly misleading me (or maybe he's just dumb), he is still only participating in what we all know to be the "American Way" This country was built on misleading.

Now you... RTR... are the informed consumer... Fortunately, for our economy, you are a rarity

You have got me thinking though... Instead of placing the Africans in with these guys/gals, I think I may nuke survivors in the tank after it cycles... Wait a while, then add the Africans.