Are discus more difficult to raise ?

Some "Discus People" will have you believe they're next to impossible to care for. But that's far from the truth. I got mine at around 2" or so a year ago. They were kept in a 65 g tank with 5 Corys and a Bristlenose, fed 1-2 times a day and got a 60% water change per week and they've thrived. Take the "Discus are super hard to keep" comments with a grain of salt. If you're not used to weekly water changes you might consider it 'hard'. But all fish should get that, not just Discus.
 
Some "Discus People" will have you believe they're next to impossible to care for. But that's far from the truth. I got mine at around 2" or so a year ago. They were kept in a 65 g tank with 5 Corys and a Bristlenose, fed 1-2 times a day and got a 60% water change per week and they've thrived. Take the "Discus are super hard to keep" comments with a grain of salt. If you're not used to weekly water changes you might consider it 'hard'. But all fish should get that, not just Discus.

So it's basically a myth? I've kept rummy noses, angels and many others this way (except cardinals; 6 did not last 24 hours) for a decade.
 
I don't doubt those people honestly think you have to take care of Discus with 100% daily water changes and being fed 6-8 times a day. They've heard other people say it and they don't question it or do research, they just repeat what they've heard. I think ALL fish should have big weekly water changes and be fed several times a day. So in that respect I treat my Discus the same as I treat all my fish.
 
I don't doubt those people honestly think you have to take care of Discus with 100% daily water changes and being fed 6-8 times a day. They've heard other people say it and they don't question it or do research, they just repeat what they've heard. I think ALL fish should have big weekly water changes and be fed several times a day. So in that respect I treat my Discus the same as I treat all my fish.

Got it!! I may try someday.
 
There is so much about this hobby that is built around something's that were anecdotal at best and pure deception by keepers trying to keep their secrets. The myth about ph is just about done but you still get people that will swear that it needs to be at a certain level for certain fish. Most of us now know that a stable ph is more important to have healthy fish. Just look at a store shelf ph+, ph-, stabilizers ro water filters. We have all been in a lfs and heard the employees telling the newbie they need this and that and that other thing and thought what are they saying! and that's just chemicals.

With fish this seems to be at its worst with discus. This still goes on now some of the biggest names with discus still pass along half truths.

as with anything follow the money, as long as the myth stands the higher the price stays if it were widely know that they are easy to raise and spawn the price goes down. Keep the myth going and price stays high.

The biggest names in quality discus are not the local breeders its guys who import them from Singapore, and other Asian countries and Germany they aren't raising these fish and doing the heavy lifting so to speak. They have them shipped half way around the world. If they were as fragile as some would have us believe they would not be importing them.

Its the local breeders (not all of them by any means) that sell their fry that don't always tell the whole story ( there's a reason its call a fish story )
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Its in their best interest to keep up the myths I have been doing a lot of research for an article I am writing detailing a lot of these myths and half truths. Most of the so called facts are just what one person said as fact back in the early days and have just stuck and to some is gospel but try and find any studies of scientific fact and there is none.

I have been doing in the last week or so started to research probably the biggest controversy which is do fish secrete hormones in the water that stunt other males. There is lots of people who say they do but try to find a study or scientific testing no one knows of any but they will swear that its true.

This hobby of ours needs to cut through all the bs and stay with facts if it's going to survive to the next generations. IMHO

In short there isn't anyone who can't keep discus the plain info is :

1. keep 1 or 5-6 discus nothing in between (unless you buy a mated pair $175 - $800 +)

2. Do your water changes the larger the fish the less PWC you need to do

3. keep the temp in your tank 84 - 90 the younger the fish the warmer the water.

4. feed them a high quality diet.

that's it in a nutshell not that different from other fish ( other than the few cichlids that do not like fresh water that need aged water)
 
Regarding the "pH myth", there are fish and invertebrates that do require a certain pH. African cichlids for one require an alkaline pH to thrive. Crystal red and crystal black shrimp from the genus Caridina require soft, acidic water to LIVE. I've kept them in soft and alkaline water and they died very quickly (a week or less), and I've kept them in soft acidic water and they breed prolifically. Saltwater tanks require an alkaline ph too but I won't get into that as this is the FW section of the forum.

All myths are based in some part on a truth. The truth is, discus are sensitive to poor water conditions. Keeping discus in acidic water prevents toxic ammonia from harming them. Uneaten food, excrement, and decaying plants all produce ammonia, but in an acidic setting the ammonia molecule is converted into a far less harmful ammonium ion. Nitrite and nitrate can be neutralized in the same manner, by the addition of free hydronium ions. As the pH approaches a neutral reading there are less hydronium ions in the water and less of the toxic ammonia can be neutralized. Though it's true that discus do not require a certain pH, (rather a very attainable range of 5.0-8.4+), they would certainly benefit from an acidic environment. Bacteria that can cause many problems in discus are also halted by an acidic environment. Given the choice of keeping discus in an acidic or alkaline water, the choice is obvious to me, but certainly an alkaline pH will work. Extra care may need to be given with an alkaline pH, i.e. more water changes.

As far as the stunting goes, you should probably contact Mr. Jack Wattley, who has done a few experiments in that area. It's not just the males that get stunted, it's all of the fish in the school except for the dominant one/two. Many experts that have kept discus for several decades claim that they have seen this time and time again. When the alpha of the group is removed a new alpha quickly takes its place.
 
that's it in a nutshell not that different from other fish

Yes! Mercy, Draal-where on earth have you been when I get jumped on for saying the exact same thing? lol
I agree 100%. Although I do keep mine at 81 deg and they've done great (for a year anyway).
 
Regarding the "pH myth", there are fish and invertebrates that do require a certain pH. African cichlids for one require an alkaline pH to thrive. Crystal red and crystal black shrimp from the genus Caridina require soft, acidic water to LIVE. I've kept them in soft and alkaline water and they died very quickly (a week or less), and I've kept them in soft acidic water and they breed prolifically. Saltwater tanks require an alkaline ph too but I won't get into that as this is the FW section of the forum.

All myths are based in some part on a truth. The truth is, discus are sensitive to poor water conditions. Keeping discus in acidic water prevents toxic ammonia from harming them. Uneaten food, excrement, and decaying plants all produce ammonia, but in an acidic setting the ammonia molecule is converted into a far less harmful ammonium ion. Nitrite and nitrate can be neutralized in the same manner, by the addition of free hydronium ions. As the pH approaches a neutral reading there are less hydronium ions in the water and less of the toxic ammonia can be neutralized. Though it's true that discus do not require a certain pH, (rather a very attainable range of 5.0-8.4+), they would certainly benefit from an acidic environment. Bacteria that can cause many problems in discus are also halted by an acidic environment. Given the choice of keeping discus in an acidic or alkaline water, the choice is obvious to me, but certainly an alkaline pH will work. Extra care may need to be given with an alkaline pH, i.e. more water changes.

As far as the stunting goes, you should probably contact Mr. Jack Wattley, who has done a few experiments in that area. It's not just the males that get stunted, it's all of the fish in the school except for the dominant one/two. Many experts that have kept discus for several decades claim that they have seen this time and time again. When the alpha of the group is removed a new alpha quickly takes its place.

I agree with you about the PH, we have a problem with the myth of you can only keep Discus as well as Angels in Ph's below 7.0 successfully .
We do not recommend playing with the PH unless you absolutely know what you are doing. You can end up doing more harm than good and the simple fact that it is a pain in the a$$. We recommend that you simply keep up with the water changes and all should be well . There are some exceptions , our water parameters change from time to time due to weather etc.thus is why we use a 300+ gallon holding tank.

We have been breeding both species for longer than a decade and we were caught up in all the myths of keeping these not so delicate species.
We spent a lot of time and wasted a ton of cash listening to people who just repeated what others told them about breeding and raising these fish.
My point is , do not fall into the same trend that we did and speak directly to people who do this for a living and who have the hands on experience
 
I don't know how this discussion turned to water chemistry and myths, but to stay on topic, raising Discus does have it's challenges. For one, Discus fry require to be with the parents shortly after hatching to feed on their slime coat. This is probably one of the hardest parts of raising Discus, since it's not anything that the owner can do, but let the fish figure it out. Sometimes they're eaten, and sometimes they don't attach properly to the parents.

Another thing that presents a challenge is that raising Discus usually requires the 1 or 5+ quantities in order to prevent fighting. It's not a fish that you can just pick a number and raise. Ultimately when they are full grown, a 75G tank is almost a must for some stress-free enjoyment of the adult fish.

I find that Discus are picky breeders, just like some shrimp and other species. They require a low TDS and pH for the eggs to fertilize and hatch. Raising young Discus require a higher TDS and more stable KH and GH conditions. Young Discus will grow for months, and the higher the heat, the more they will be ready to consume. If they are not fed properly, or sufficiently during this time, they will likely not grow to their full potential, and there are problems with that as well. It's said that large Discus, usually are not good breeders.

The Discus keeping hobby is still an evolving hobby. We're learning every-day, and disproving myths along the way. I have no doubt that new myths will emerge, but that's part of the hobby. People will swear by one thing, and others will try to disprove it. It's just a big debate, but sometimes, some people take it personal and let it get out of hand.

For someone that is serious about getting into Raising and Breeding Discus, I'd recommend reading through the massive knowledge stored at SimplyDiscus.com. However, keep in mind that although extensive, the information there could be misleading. There will be clashes of way things are done, but for the most part, the discussions are kept peaceful by great mods. Just don't believe everything you read, and do the research, try it out for yourself, and have a fish story of your own.

Shawn
 
I thought this post died.
nice post Shawn.
Simply Discus is a great source and there are knowledgeable people there.

Again tho..(as shawn mentioned) do your research.

there is debate about feeding schedules , water changes , even stunting.

A good friend of mine (discus breeder) said it best.
you can do daily water changes and feed 6 times per day. most of your discus will get to 5-6"..just a little faster.
Genetics play a big part. ;)

same can be said for all Fish.

shawn, the myths, water chemistry etc IMO play a part to the topic..
are Discus more difficult to raise.
and open for debate as long as it is clean.

that means no name calling

;)
 
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