Caution! Extremely Opinionated Posting!

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Personally, I think people should use whatever they want to. I've never tried buying crafted decor like ships, but if other people like it, then it's their choice. I've seen a betta tank with a buddah decoration in the center and I thought it looked decent. I have tried plastic plants and seen nothing wrong with them. I agree that a goldfish bowl is unsuitable for fish, but that is because it is too small of a habit for a goldfish. Choice of decor is a completely different thing.

And the thing you mentioned about a box filter stuck out...because I happen to run one. I see nothing wrong with box filters or sponge filters. Many people use them for fry or for shrimp. The the same types of bacteria grow on my box filter, as they do on any other filter. Here's a good thread from MFK on bio filtration...http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=264851

Also, many people prefer having a bare tank not solely for easier cleaning(function), but because it does not distract the viewer from appreciating the beauty of the fish.

Unless it can be proven that "fake" decor makes a fish less happy, I don't see anything wrong with using them. In fact, I think we are making fish less happy by trying to prevent algae in our tanks. Algae can make fish feel more secure and "green water" can be used to feed small fish or fry. They also improve water quality and can block excessive light out of the tank.
 
If, at some point you fail to contradict yourself it might be for one of two reasons: a) you have stagnated or b) You are so much of an expert you never make mistakes. I find 'b' to be unlikely even for those that like to call themselves "expert" or a "pro". As we grow we will contradict our earlier comments, such are the great failings of being human; we make mistakes.

I feel "art" or what one wishes to call art, is a part of a person's spatial awareness. Not everyone has the same level and for some like myself, spatial awareness is disabled or damaged. To clarify: if one tilts their head back, extends both arms fully out to their sides, closes their eyes, and then tries to touch the tip of their nose with the tip of their finger, they should be able to do it. However, if one is "under the influence" it becomes a difficult task. This seemingly innocent action is often used by police to catch drunk drivers as being "under the influence". For people like myself, I simply cannot do it period (I politely refuse to participate in roadside DUI testing, with explanation, and have to opt for a blood test)! This, to me is a sense you use to establish what is an artistically balanced tank. When I cannot tell where center is, art is drastically different. This is one of the arguments I employ when I suggest design and art need not be as important as functionality. If you cannot incorporate both aspects, then functionality and health of the inhabitants is the perferred goal.

Some people like yourself that have such a refined sense of what works and what doesn't makes your projects amazing to me since I lack that ability. I cannot envision what something should look like prior to commencing on a project. It is people like you that need to have patience to teach people like me. It is something that (for me) must be taught.

This doesn't mean I lose out. My creativity simple lies within other realms. Teaching the ultimate goal first of "happy critter" and then teaching art-form I feel a much better road. Those that go out and buy a fish and then cheap out on the environmental needs is bass-ackwards IMO. Yet some go out and buy a tank and toys and then try to force-fit their fish into it. It may be aesthetically correct but it has lost function for the fish they want.

So I wave off criticisms of my decor or lack thereof in favor of trying to develop function. This relates back to your first post of trying to simulate natural conditions in an artificial setting. It is one reason I never post pictures of my tanks. They are either over-decorated or bare. After 5 years and 20+ tanks I have finally hit upon a display that I feel represents a touch of art and care in its design. It is people like you and others that can state personal opinion without hostility and able to offer constructive criticism that pays off for me and should leave you a sense of accomplishment.

Anytime someone feels the need to offer an opinion they should feel free to do so without remorse if it can be done in a mature and sensible manner.
 
I think the pico aquarium is a wonderful idea, but you may do better by putting aside your personal prejudices about aesthetics. While what you describe sounds lovely, others may see it as boring or generic, unless something ties it to the individual business. For example, if I had, say, a car dealership, a pico aquarium probably wouldn't interest me. But show me a car underwater with working led headlights, and I couldn't resist! :D
 
Having gone heavily planted in my main tank, with the exceptions of the placement of rocks and driftwood, most of the decor is now out of my hands. I do the occasional pruning in order to make sure I can see the fish, but I've found that at least in the aquarium, nature seems to be the best aquascaper. I just focus on functionality, making sure that the less brave fish have a place to be when my dominant male pearl gourami gets in a bad mood. The aquarium looks beautiful and is never the same two days in a row (If you want your aquarium to constantly change too, just plant some wisteria under 2wpg of t5HO and add a little flourish twice a week, then buy a set of pruners). The fish are all healthy and don't take the pearl too seriously (the neons don't even worry about schooling up much anymore). More importantly it provides a calming influence for my partner who suffers from PTSD.

While I share your dislike for the "clown-vomit" gravel mix and kitchy decor, I also recognize that these things also have their place. I wouldn't combine red, black, and white with yellow shoes, but it works for a particularly famous mouse. I could see myself putting a bunch of glow-fish into a tank with a Harry-Potter statue mounted on a volcano of multicolored gravel (gods help me), if I had a child that I was trying to get interested in fish. I don't think the fish would mind, and ultimately if it gets the child involved in my hobby, and learning how to care for fish appropriately, then it's all worth it. Heck, it might even go with the decor.

To me, the #1 rule is care for the animals first, aesthetics second.

P.S. Since we're sharing strong opinions, I also share dislikes for cookie-cutter landscaping and dog/cat clothing. I'll also add dyed blond hair and teenage fashion to the mix
 
Ok in a dog clothing pro's defense, I live in WI and my poor small dogs freeze(even inside) without a sweater on during the winter. There I got that off my chest lol resume with the topic.

That's why I own one of these!

picture.php


ok...now back on topic :P
 
Interesting topic. I'm leaning toward agreement with Sploke and Excuzzme on this subject.

What each of us considers art is subjective and dependent on our personal taste. As stated, folks keep tanks for any number of reasons. Conscientious fishkeepers concern themselves with the well-being of the inhabitants first, appearance second, IMO.

Over the 42+ years I've kept aquaria, my tastes have changed as has my knowledge and understanding. Like Excuzzme said, we'll contradict ourselves down the road after we learn more.

I personally don't care for the clown puke gravel, neon decorations and bubbly treasure chests. And while I may give someone a hard time for having those things in their tank, it's done tongue in cheek. If the fish are thriving, then who really cares if they live in a little neon pink world?

On the boards I often see the word natural tossed about as if it had significance with what we hobbyists do. NOTHING we do in a glass box is "natural", unless we leave it outside, let rainwater top it off and let it be "naturally" colonized by algae and those critters that occur in ponds, mud puddles and drainage ditches. There is certainly nothing natural in our filtration, lighting and the manicured gardens I've seen touted as "natural".

We do this hobby because it makes us happy to do so or we wind up quitting. So if an aquarist is happy with her tank, and her fish are healthy and thriving, isn't her opinion on her art the only one that matters?

Mark
 
Personally, I think people should use whatever they want to. I've never tried buying crafted decor like ships, but if other people like it, then it's their choice. I've seen a betta tank with a buddah decoration in the center and I thought it looked decent. I have tried plastic plants and seen nothing wrong with them. I agree that a goldfish bowl is unsuitable for fish, but that is because it is too small of a habit for a goldfish. Choice of decor is a completely different thing..

Two factors are at work here: function - to keep a goldfish and be attractive, and form - a bowl with or without gravel and decor. As far as it goes when considering fishkeeping as a craft, it is pretty much a failure imo. As for aesthetics, placed well with an interesting fish and the bowl being a pleasant shape, it might be very successful. As an example of art, thumbs down for cliche and lack of craft.

And the thing you mentioned about a box filter stuck out...because I happen to run one. I see nothing wrong with box filters or sponge filters. Many people use them for fry or for shrimp. The the same types of bacteria grow on my box filter, as they do on any other filter. Here's a good thread from MFK on bio filtration...http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=264851.

Agreed, sponge and box filters are just fine re. biofiltration. Just, they seem like ugly intrusions into the space. If they're for a breeding tank, for fry, for shrimp, or for keeping livestock for sale, fine. I wouldn't dream of using them in an aquarium meant to express beauty. To me, form and technique must necessarily follow function and if part of the function is to be visually pleasing, to house either a naturalistic or highly artificial composition or aquascape, then filtration ought to fit in or at least be as unobtrusive as possible. If faced with the necessity of using air pumps and box or sponge filters, it is worth thinking about how to integrate them or at least make them unobtrusive in an aquarium meant for visual presentation.



Also, many people prefer having a bare tank not solely for easier cleaning(function), but because it does not distract the viewer from appreciating the beauty of the fish..

If the fish are 'happy,' then I am happy. Bare tanks can certainly be an example of purpose, mindfulness, and of aesthetics. Crowded ones overloaded with 'showoff' fishes are to me very ugly both in concept and appearance.

Unless it can be proven that "fake" decor makes a fish less happy, I don't see anything wrong with using them. In fact, I think we are making fish less happy by trying to prevent algae in our tanks. Algae can make fish feel more secure and "green water" can be used to feed small fish or fry. They also improve water quality and can block excessive light out of the tank.

I doubt low algae levels impact a fish's health and stress levels much at all. Could be wrong, but I doubt it. Now, green water as feed I can get with but it seems silly to use it to block excessive light when there are other means which do not obscure viewing. Of course, it could be an aesthetic choice and if it pleases the aquarist and is effective then bully for green water.

I think it is generally true that fish are less stressed in some environments than others AND that environments rich in live plants, hidey holes, stones, wood, and natural substrates are less stressful to many species of fish thus making for 'happier' fish. Certain species, like some African cichlids, could give a crap for plants but may be happier with shells and/or rocks and big gravel. Also, some darker artificially colored gravel may also put fish at ease.

I honestly believe that the craft of fishkeeping can exist without much aesthetic consideration, thus not ruling out any filter, substrate, lighting, tank, etc., which contributes or at least does not detract from the wellbeing of the fish and for whatever purposes the fish is kept for such as breeding, quarantine, growing out, etc. Bringing aesthetic and conceptual considerations into fishkeeping introduces the idea of it as an art.

Art is where we can all disagree. There are styles and trends and expressions of individuality, concepts such as mindfulness, balance, 'nature,' and the definitions of where craft ends and art begins or whether there is a clear boundary at all (my personal opinion).

The reader of my postings must understand that I'm not pretending to be Moses coming down from the mountain with commandments writ in stone but rather an opinionated hobbyist and critic with a background in fine arts, filmmaking, aesthetics, and computer science.

What I really hope to see in all the threads I post in and challenge people in is this, even in disagreement:
Less "why not"

More "how to"


Meaning rather than shoot down my suggestions, counter them with thought out, useful suggestions of one's own. Supplant or supplement my ideas with your own! Hooray! We all 'win.' Plastic plants can be used and may not be harmful at all, great, but how about some kinds of plastic plants, brands, sources of good ones, and how can they be used to advantage both for the fishes' welfare and our aesthetic, artful concerns?

I'm rethinking my take on clown vomit and plastic, and might find room in my world for an air pump or two but not in most cases.
 
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