Chris Rock at the Oscars

Um, I watched most of the Oscars (which is very unlike me) and I know what part you're talking about. Chris Rock didn't bash the troops, he didn't even particularly bash Bush. He certainly took shots at him in the same manner most comedians take shots at anyone in power. He didn't say that everything said in Farenheit 911 was true, he said that there were some startling things.

Among them being Bush's terrible fiscal policy and invading Iraq under pretenses that turned out to be false. Both of those are completely true. Contrary to what Republicans and pro-Bush folks are trying to spin nowadays, The USA did not invade Iraq to liberate the people from a brutal dictator, that was more of a concequence of what happened. The stated purpose for the invasion was the eleged presence of WMD's, specifically chemical and biological warfare agents. After months of searching and torturing, I mean interviewing, people who would have known they found no trace or information suggesting that there should be traces of the aforementioned baddies.

All in all the invasion was poorly planned and hastily undertaken. Do I support Bush and his cronies'? Not a bit. Do I support the troops? Absolutely. I'll disagree wholeheartedly with the people in positions of power engaging in needless or poorly contrived military engagements, especially when you've already got a big job unfinished (Afghanistan). But I support the people who actually do the fighting and lay their lives on the line absolutely. To think that you need to agree with the leader who sends them into the mess to support them is complete foolishness.

I think that Chris Rock did a great job of making light of it and enjoyed the Gap vs. Banana Republic allegory. I probably still won't watch next year, just because I don't like all that hollywood crap. I like the movies but I don't care about all the hollywood politics and like others have mentioned, I don't care who Brad Pitt is going to vote for or what Susan Sarandon's opinions are, all I care about is how well they play their roles.
 
Lets see where do I start. You have democratic elections in two countries that never had them before (Iraq and Afghanistan) which in turn scares the bejeesus out of the dictator of Libya who voluntarily turns over his entire nuclear weapons program. Lebanon, after seeing the success of the elections ousts its own Syrian backed leadership and demands its own democratic elections. Egypt announced this week that it will hold the first multi party elections that country has seen in 50 years. Syria is so concerned over its isolation that they are starting to cooperate with the the U.S in the war on terror. How is any of this bad for the world? One of the most liberal weekly rags in Germany had as its cover last week "Is it possible that Bush was Right?". The rest of the world may be willing to stick its collective head in the sand and pretend that if they ignore terrorism it will just go away (this was Bill Clintons tactic as well), but I for one am proud to have a President that is willing to stand up and do whats right.
 
Karnaaj said:
Lets see where do I start. You have democratic elections in two countries that never had them before (Iraq and Afghanistan) which in turn scares the bejeesus out of the dictator of Libya who voluntarily turns over his entire nuclear weapons program. Lebanon, after seeing the success of the elections ousts its own Syrian backed leadership and demands its own democratic elections. Egypt announced this week that it will hold the first multi party elections that country has seen in 50 years. Syria is so concerned over its isolation that they are starting to cooperate with the the U.S in the war on terror. How is any of this bad for the world? One of the most liberal weekly rags in Germany had as its cover last week "Is it possible that Bush was Right?". The rest of the world may be willing to stick its collective head in the sand and pretend that if they ignore terrorism it will just go away (this was Bill Clintons tactic as well), but I for one am proud to have a President that is willing to stand up and do whats right.
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I'd just like to add that Turkey recently petitioned for membership in the EU. There are some sweeping changes taking place throughout the Middle East. History will either view Bush as a paranoid warmonger or he'll go down as a Liberator. It's going to be interesting for the next 20-40 years. FWIW, I am appreciative of his efforts as President. I even liked him as my Governor.
 
happychem said:
All in all the invasion was poorly planned and hastily undertaken.
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You are totally incorrect. The invasion itself went off nearly perfectly.
 
slipknottin said:
You are totally incorrect. The invasion itself went off nearly perfectly.
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There was soemthing on the National Geographic channel recently that talked about the opening salvos. Happychem, they minimized civilian casualties amazingly well. They considered the direction of the bombs to minimize damage to neighboring buildings. They used shaped charges. They used GPS and landed bombs with near perfect accuracy. They special showed befores and afters of buildings marked as targets right next to civilian structures. We're talking the military trget was destroyed while the schoolhouse next door didn't even have the glass knocked out of it! Also, they made a conscious decision not to take out infastructure this time. Steret lights still worked. People still had electricity. To say it wasn't planned well is just plain false.
 
Karnaaj, Harlock, I didn't say that no good would/has come of it. Nor was that the point of my argument. What I said was that those were not the stated arguments for invasion the humanitarian reasons alone would have been sufficient for me to support it, adding that Saddam was in violation of the armistice of 1992 would have bolstered my support. However, these were not the reasons given, not the reasons hammered over and over again. Yes, they were mentioned, but very quietly. My point was that the cause given and hammered at was the WMD scare, something which pro-Bush folks are all too happy to forget about and have since been backpeddling all over. I never said that no good would or did come of the invasion, but unlike many, I'm not willing to just forget that the invasion was carried out under false pretenses.

Slip, your wording shows that you know exactly what I meant.
 
I sure Turkey has petitioned to join the EU before, but were refused because of their human rights violations.

As for Iraq, I think the invasion plan was fairly well organized but it will never cease to amaze me how no one in the administration foreseen the uprise in terrorism there. Were they blind? They could have crushed it a year ago. What were they expecting? Now it's going to go on for years and years. Sad really.
 
reiverix said:
I sure Turkey has petitioned to join the EU before, but were refused because of their human rights violations.

As for Iraq, I think the invasion plan was fairly well organized but it will never cease to amaze me how no one in the administration foreseen the uprise in terrorism there. Were they blind? They could have crushed it a year ago. What were they expecting? Now it's going to go on for years and years. Sad really.
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But see, Reiver, that's the point. They are working to clean up their human rights violations. I believe the EU even offered a timetable. That was my point entirely. We're seeing places "clean up their acts" as it were, to gain the benefits associated with democracies. That speaks volumes!
 
What I meant about planning had nothing to do with the physical process of the invasion, that was done with masterful precision. Again evidence of the truly exceptional skill of your armed forces.

But there was no plan for stabilizing the area after the invasion, no one considered (or if they did it didn't show up) the terrorists, or freedom fighters, depending on your point of view, nor the looting of priceless historical artifacts; I was really refering more to the logistical side. The existing army was disbanded which is pure foolishness, now they need to retrain a new military, only the republican guard actually stood up and fought any harder than need be to avoid being shot as a traitor.
 
Amazing how this thread went from how Mr. Rock sucks to in-depth discussion of 'Merica's military invasions.
 
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