Complete die off w / bio-spira

[Roan Art]

http://www.marinelandlabs.com/cus_faq.asp#48


"Answer C: Ammonia-removing products may harm BIO-Spira® rendering it less effective at reducing ammonia and nitrite. For best results, use exclusively with BIO-Safe™."

Almost sounds like a marketing ploy for Bio Safe

Roan

 

[daveedka]

"Answer C: Ammonia-removing products may harm BIO-Spira® rendering it less effective at reducing ammonia and nitrite. For best results, use exclusively with BIO-Safe™."

Prime does not remove ammonia. It binds it. Ammonium is still available to bacteria so prime should not hurt anything. I'm thinking it is a ploy, but would like to know if anyone has actual test information. Products that do in fact remove ammonia would harm bio-spira.
Dave

 

[RTR]

No, not solely a ploy, as real ammonia-sequestering treatments can starve nitrification bacteria - there is nothing new there. So here the key is the differnce is in "harming" by stravation versus "killing" as a number of meds do. If Prime actually killed nitrification bacteria, a lot of us would be in trouble. The difference lies in the nature of how the ammonia is handled, locking it into the ammonium form versus sequestering/removing it permanently.

 

[themadblimper]

Prime contains sulfur, that much I know. Never used bio-safe, if someone could post its contents, I would compare the two and share the results.

First thing I thought when I read the warning on the back of bio-spira was "marketing technique." Now that I read the top of this thread, I thought I'd share what I read. Who knows, there may be some verification to it.

Wait... here we go. It says that repeated use of ammonia removing products inhibit the action of bio spira. My guess is that it would starve off the bacteria.

 

[Roan Art]

http://www.marineland.com/products/mllabs/ml_biosafe.asp

"PRINCIPLE INGREDIENTS:
odium hydroxymethane sulfinic acid"

http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/Prime_faq.html

From my bottle:

"Contains complexed hydro-sulfite salts"

I sent SeaChem an email to see what they say about Prime and Bio Spira.

Roan

 

[Roan Art]

Wow, talk about a fast answer from SeaChem! Note: headers and email addresses removed for obvious reasons:

Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 11:10:00 -0500
To: Roan Art (Eileen Kortright)
From: Seachem Tech Support
Subject: Re: Prime and Bio Spira

comments: Will adding Prime to a new tank with fish and Bio Spira render the Bio Spira useless?

Prime will bind the ammonia and nitrite so that it is nontoxic to the fish but it is still available for the bacteria. So the addition of Prime will non effect the Bio Spira in any way.

Best Regards,
Seachem Tech Support~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Seachem Laboratories, Inc. www.seachem.com 888-SEACHEM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Wonder what Marineland would say.

Roan

 

[Roan Art]

And here is the reply from Marineland:

----------------------
From: "Marineland Aquarium Products"
To: "Eileen Kortright"

No. They both have ammonia removing additives that can harm Bio-Spira.


Thank you
Marineland
Tech help
(800) 322-1266 Ext. 4943
(805) 529-3030 Fax


-----Original Message-----
From: Eileen Kortright
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 8:54 AM
To: Marineland Aquarium Products
Subject: Tech help, Bio Spira

Will SeaChem's Prime and/or Kordon's Amquel or Amquel Plus work with Bio Spira?

Eileen Kortright
-----------------------

Of course, being an obnoxious person, I'll just have to forward copies of each email to the respective companies just to be a royal PITA

Roan

 

[pl*co]

Staying tuned for the next installment... :dive: Unfortunately, I think they will probably stick to their guns and point to each other's "erroneous" information.

 

[daveedka]

Staying tuned for the next installment... Unfortunately, I think they will probably stick to their guns and point to each other's "erroneous" information

I would say they will stick to their guns, but simple ammonia test kits will prove Seachems claims. If a test kit does not distinguish between ammonia and ammonium prime shows no change. if the test does distinuish then you can see that prime did in fact change the free ammonia into ammonium. Since it is pretty much known that our bacteria (the same bacteria contained in bio-spira) can and do consume ammonium as well as ammonia, Seachem wins this argument as far as I'm concerned.

MArineland either doesn't know the difference or they are trying to market through flase claims. Neither one recieves a vote of confidence from me.
Dave

 

[Roan Art]

. . .
MArineland either doesn't know the difference or they are trying to market through flase claims. Neither one recieves a vote of confidence from me.
Dave

I agree, however, to give Marineland the benefit of the doubt my email may have been answered by someone who really did not know and was "winging" it. Not good, but a common practice by companies.

I did forward copies to each company and I can't wait to see what they say If need be, I'm going to push the point with Marineland because I also believe that Prime and Amquel are fine to use with Bio Spira. I *have* used Prime and have had no problems that were not of my own doing.

Roan