Cycle

[jamzwayne]

WOW

Wonderful thread, full of good info.

Thanks EVERYONE

 

[anonapersona]

Back to countrygirl...

But, back to countrygirl and the fishy cycle, I noticed that she has a successful angelfish tank in the house.

I suggest that she import bacteria from that tank to the new tank frequently by taking filter squeezin's from that tank's filter media to the filter of the new tank.

If you can import bacteria, why bother with a fishless cycle at all?

 

[RTR]

Even when I start a tank with a fully mature filter, I still do an ammonia challenge to confirm there are no unoxidized metabolites after 24 hours. same as with fishless cycling - knowing that you have a mature and fully functioning filter before introducing any lifestock is quite cheap insurance IMHO & IME. I don't do shots in the dark if I can avoid it.

 

[Cat]

It amazes me the lengths you all go to for testing! Im about to set up my fourth aquarium (6ft this time) and every time I have started off by just filling with water adding my stress coat and leaving a week with just the filter running to clear the water then start a fish cycle with about 5 White cloud minows then each week work my way up to slightly hardier fish untill fully cycled at 6 weeks. only then do I do a water change of 50% cleaning the gunk off my sponge filters in the waste water. Now I have never lost a fish this way nor had any fish illness. Also I started off by wanting to buy all the many testing kits. Till the guy who worked thre told me I was better off not wasting my money he said so long as I do a 30% water change every month and I buy suitable fish for the water in my area their was no need. Sure enough in the last 2 years I have only lost a few fish for stress within the first couple of days of introducing or a couple that got killed by other tank mates. The only illness my fish have ever had is my 50gal has had Ich twice. (just increased temp for three days and was gone).
I dont see how fish cycling is cruel as I was told that fish that are used are used to conditions in the wild where they withstand many different water conditions thoughout the seasons, including when lakes dry up on the summer the survive in small pools with high nitrate/amonia levels.

Just my two cents anyway!

 

[OrionGirl]

2 years is not really a very long time.

The fish are harmed by the exposure. Might not be lethal, but it's harmful. Natural conditions--even in lakes that dry up, even in very small streams, will never reach the titers of nitrogen found in most aquariums and all cycling tanks. Just doesn't happen--I've seen the test results from a variety of waters around Wyoming, including ephemeral streams 2 weeks before they dried up, and they never had ammonia levels higher than .05ppm.

And, of course, what of the tank that you don't want white clouds (or danios, or any of the other 'hardy' fish) to occupy?

If you choose to use fish for cycling, that is your right. However, do not imply that it is harmless to the fish just because you can't see the damage.

 

[RTR]

Two years is a mature tank, no question. But it is only mature for the shortest-lived fish, quite immature for most of the fish I keep. I want and expect my fish to easily exceed their wild lifespans, not uncommonly a multiple of their wild lifespan. If they do not, I know there is something wrong with my husbandry -they certainly are not exposed to predators, disease, and only rarely to natural disasters.

 

[daveedka]

..and Dave, you've been doing this awhile, huh?

Solving problems or keeping fish :laugh: I kept fish for a lot of years without knowing what I was doing, I kept them for a few more with some decent knowledge, and now have a lot of experience to back up knowledge that I am gaining everyday. I am trying new things that I never dared to attempt because I didn't have knowledge, and was hesitant to mess with success before. Of the 34 years I have lived I have kept fish for about 16 of them, and helped others with tanks for an additional 7 while my tanks sat empty. I am very seriously considering opening an LFS when money is no longer an issue for me (hope that day arrives before I'm too old).

I dont see how fish cycling is cruel as I was told that fish that are used are used to conditions in the wild where they withstand many different water conditions thoughout the seasons, including when lakes dry up on the summer the survive in small pools with high nitrate/amonia levels.

First of all, cruel is an interpretation, irresponsible may be a better choice of words. there are many things that do occur in the wild that could fall in the class of cruel. just watch the discovery channel for a day or two. Secondly the fish that are caught in pools in the wild where the water volume is so low that the ammonia and ntrite levels rise usually die. that's why we find pools of dead shad when the floods subside in ohio. still enoguh water, not enough air and too much nitrogen
The big issue is what are we doing with fish in our homes. We have them for entertainment. if we chose to keep anmals for entertainment, we have a responsibility to provide them with excellent conditions to live in while they entertain us. if we aren't willing to do that IMO we shouldn't have them in our homes. they aren't there for any necessary purpose except to entertain us.
You open your post by stating that you don't understand why we test so much, ignorance is bliss in many cases, but it doesn't mean the fish like it. ammonis burns, and nitrite poisoning may not kill a fish today but why would you want to put a fish through it so you can be entertained? Why not learn how to prevent these issues and keep fish that didn't have to live through ammonia and nitrite spikes? I have put plenty of fish through a tough cycle when I didn't know better, but now that I do I cannot in good concious put another fish through one. I may put a fish through a spike accidentally, but not on purpose, when there is an alternative so easlily available. As far as Fishy vs Fishless cycling, either can be done without harming fish but it is a lot of work to do a fishy cycle without hurting a fish, and has a much higher potential for problems. so it makes almost no sense at all to ever do a fishy cycle when the alternative is easier, more effective, and cantains less risk.

Dave

 

[Illdoitright]

Please detail the "Fishless Cycle"

All good info, and maybe I missed it or there is a link that has the "dummies" detailed procedure for the fishless cycle?
I would like to know what ammonia to get and how much to add at what intervals and what to look for in my readings?

I have a new 29 gal with a UGF and two powerheads and a hang on power filter.
I have about 2 inches of substrate and am waiting on a replacement hood before i do anything else (no water yet). I did get a good test kit and was originally going to seed the cycle, but now will wait to do it fishless..

 

[daveedka]

Fishless cycle is mentioned and explained here and there in the last four pages. the quick version is add water, and enoguh clear ammonia to get 5ppm keep ammonia t that level until nitrites start to raise and then keep ammona between 2-3 ppm. when nitrites start dropping nitrates will appear. when you can add ammonia and 24 hours later ammonia and nitrite are 0 the cycle is estabilished do a large volume water change to reduce the nitrates created, and add fish. takes 4-6 weeks without a starter culture of bacteria. for more detail, search fishless cycle here and or on Google.
To speed things up find a source of bacteria from an estabilished tank
Dave

 

[Dangerdoll]

did you try this link that Richer posted earlier in this thread? http://www.tomgriffin.com/aquamag/cycle2.html

I just went through the process of starting all over again and decided to go with fishless cycling... I'm about halfway through it and found this to be quite helpful.