Cycle
- Thread starter countrygirl
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After reading this entire thread, I think fishless cycling is the way I would like to go on my new tank. In my 90 gal. I eventually want to end up with about 7-8 full grown fancy goldfish, but as I live in a somewhat remote area I suspect that I will be finding the particular colours and varieties I want one at a time over a long time period, and on top of that they will most likely be small babies.
Here's my question: After the fishless cycling, if I only add one or two small fish to such a large tank, will the bacterial colony survive? Won't these fish produce too little an amount of ammonia to feed the bacteria? It sounds like the only way fishless cycling can be successful is by adding a full bio-load (i.e a lot of fish) so do I have no choice but to use a fishy cycle? Thanks everyone for this entire thread - most informative!
Here's my question: After the fishless cycling, if I only add one or two small fish to such a large tank, will the bacterial colony survive? Won't these fish produce too little an amount of ammonia to feed the bacteria? It sounds like the only way fishless cycling can be successful is by adding a full bio-load (i.e a lot of fish) so do I have no choice but to use a fishy cycle? Thanks everyone for this entire thread - most informative!
cshepard said:
No, the bacteria will be fine. Just be sure not to add to many fish at once after the first few. Maybe 2 a week.
But all the goldfish will get too big for the 90g. Try maybe 3 or 4 goldfish max. Let them grow to their full size of 1 foot, and be proud that you are saving these fish from small 10g tanks!
Kasakato pretty much summed it up. Depending on the size of the goldie, 7 or 8 couild be too many. Some of the fancies can stay around 6 inches, depending on the type. Some can get... well, at least twice as big. I'd get four adults in there first and see what it looks like. Also, about the bacteria dying you are correct. But, there is something to be aware of. Even though the "full bio-load" worth of bacteria die back to the 2 or 3 fish you start out with, you still have ALL of the right bacteria. You may have noticed the ammonia converters appear first in a newly cycling tank, then the nitrite converters, right? In your case, even if they die back and you add a fish at a time later, ALL the proper bacteria aer already in place and will simply begin to grow as the extra food source becomes available. You will experience what is known as a mini cycle. It's not nearly as drawn out as the first cycle, so you are in luck. Just be sure to keep testing the water daily and changing water as necessary while the mini cycle does its thing.cshepard said:
I'm not sure I agree. If you cycle a tank so that it will process 5 ppm of ammonia in 24 hours, then you stock it with fish that produce 1/5 of that ammonia titer, the bacterial colony will slowly decrease in size. Adding more fish later will result in a mini cycle, because the ammonia production will have exceeded the biofilter's capacity.
One of the advantages of fishlessly cycling is that you can prepare the biofilter to handle a full bioload all at once. If your bioload is substantially smaller, the biofilter will die back some. It won't happen immediately, but I wouldn't go more than a 2-3 weeks unless I was OK with some die-off of the original biofilter.
Jim
One of the advantages of fishlessly cycling is that you can prepare the biofilter to handle a full bioload all at once. If your bioload is substantially smaller, the biofilter will die back some. It won't happen immediately, but I wouldn't go more than a 2-3 weeks unless I was OK with some die-off of the original biofilter.
Jim
JS- thats why I say to add them slowly. You may get a small spike under .5ppm. This is how people who did a fishy cycle add fish.
Thanks for the info. It sounds like if I add 2" goldies one at a time over a period of several months, I should be fine. But I'm thinking that If I'm only going to have 3 or 4 goldies in that size tank, as per the advice, maybe I'll consider buying larger ones, all at once. Maybe mail order. I know "the Fish Sempai" ships large goldfish to BC. I'll have to do a thread search on mail order fish, see what people's experiences have been.
If I introduce three 5 - 6" goldies that should avoid any mini-cycles, I guess, especially if that's the limit! (I was also considering a bristlenose plec).
If I introduce three 5 - 6" goldies that should avoid any mini-cycles, I guess, especially if that's the limit! (I was also considering a bristlenose plec).
What will be best is a fishless cycle, and then fish. This way there is no chance of any mess up, and mini cycle.
There is no way I'm reading through 8 pages of posts, so please bear with me if I'm being repetitive.
I am a big fan of fishless cycling. I am now (fishlessly)cycling a small (20gal) Tankanyikan shell-dweller tank. I decided to try out Hagen's Cycle in addition to normal procedure, ie:
1:bio-wheel filter from an established tank (year old tank, month old filter)
2:sand from same est. tank (about 2 cups)evenly distributed over new sand.
3:9 midsized plants: 3 anubias, 4 corkscrew val.s, 2 java fern
The ammonia levels tapered off after 5 days, absorbing 5ppm overnight thereafter. The nitites are still spiking, after almost two weeks now at reduced ammonia infusions.
I shudder to think what may have happened if I just thrown in a bottle of Cycle, and a bunch of fish, without properly cycling the tank.
Traditionally or fishlessly, do not rely on Cycle to cycle your tank.
I am a big fan of fishless cycling. I am now (fishlessly)cycling a small (20gal) Tankanyikan shell-dweller tank. I decided to try out Hagen's Cycle in addition to normal procedure, ie:
1:bio-wheel filter from an established tank (year old tank, month old filter)
2:sand from same est. tank (about 2 cups)evenly distributed over new sand.
3:9 midsized plants: 3 anubias, 4 corkscrew val.s, 2 java fern
The ammonia levels tapered off after 5 days, absorbing 5ppm overnight thereafter. The nitites are still spiking, after almost two weeks now at reduced ammonia infusions.
I shudder to think what may have happened if I just thrown in a bottle of Cycle, and a bunch of fish, without properly cycling the tank.
Traditionally or fishlessly, do not rely on Cycle to cycle your tank.
Okay, I'm a little confused by this exchange between cshapard and Kas. Are we talking fishless or fishy cycling?
At the end of fishless cycling you fully stock your tank. Period. No more cycling, no "mini-cycle".
At the end of a fishless cycle your nitrification colony is as big as it's going to get. Ideally, you should have reached a point where colony size is limited by living space (i.e. surface area on filter media), not by food. After you add your full stocking level, which in theory should not be producing as much ammonia as 5ppm daily, the colony size will die off to match the available food supply.
If you don't fully stock you've essentially wasted the months you've put into fishless cycling. True, you've established a base colony, but you still find yourself back in the standard "add one or two fish every few weeks" situation. Why?
At the end of fishless cycling you fully stock your tank. Period. No more cycling, no "mini-cycle".
At the end of a fishless cycle your nitrification colony is as big as it's going to get. Ideally, you should have reached a point where colony size is limited by living space (i.e. surface area on filter media), not by food. After you add your full stocking level, which in theory should not be producing as much ammonia as 5ppm daily, the colony size will die off to match the available food supply.
If you don't fully stock you've essentially wasted the months you've put into fishless cycling. True, you've established a base colony, but you still find yourself back in the standard "add one or two fish every few weeks" situation. Why?
