dear water company...

It would really pay you to stop telling everyone that the ph shock thing is a myth. As was explained to you in another thread, this is the way hobbiest that arent chemist understand to acclimate there fish, its a rule of thumb to go by. Perhaps explaining as you have the context behind the ph would be a lot better than stating it is a myth, because its not. The correct term is osmotic shock. Now, if you can give an explanation, or the name of a test kit that tests for the TDS in a tank, this would help tremendously for hobbiest that are not chemists, sadly a TDS test kit to my knowledge does not exist, hence the reason PH is what is used as a rule of thumb, as well as nitrates, to measure this.

Why is it wrong to tell others that something they keep saying over and over and over is wrong? Just because a million people repeat something that does not make it true. IMO he is absolutely correct in saying pH has little to do with causing shock to fish. It is the TDS or GH (Ca) difference that can cause shock.

And they do in fact make meters to test for TDS. Many SW keepers use them as SW fish are especially sensitive to TDS. The cheapest method would be to use a GH test kit though.

Why would you chance a newb reading this and taking there fish they just purchased and dumping them in there tank at home and the fish dying over a few days because of ph shock, osmotic shock? I find that to be an irresponsible posting style on your behalf.

In some cases just putting the fish into the tank is the best method. Other times its not. There are so many things that need to be taken into account when acclimating new fish there cannot just be one general rule to encompass them all.
 
I should add that my comments are about freshwater. I do not keep marine fish and have no idea whether it's true of them. It might not be; seawater has a pretty limited pH range and marine fish may lack the mechanisms to regulate their H+ balance.

Brackish water fish on the other hand might have to cope with a shift from 6.0 soft river water to pH 8.whatever marine water twice a day as the tide rises and falls. But I digress.
 
Hmmmm...interesting....goes against near enough all i have read / learned, that pH does not have an effect on fish...as it goes against a lot of online written material too...

Who knew...
 
Not that I have the slightest hopes of re-railing this thread, but did you call customer service today?
 
Why is it wrong to tell others that something they keep saying over and over and over is wrong? Just because a million people repeat something that does not make it true. IMO he is absolutely correct in saying pH has little to do with causing shock to fish. It is the TDS or GH (Ca) difference that can cause shock.

And they do in fact make meters to test for TDS. Many SW keepers use them as SW fish are especially sensitive to TDS. The cheapest method would be to use a GH test kit though.



In some cases just putting the fish into the tank is the best method. Other times its not. There are so many things that need to be taken into account when acclimating new fish there cannot just be one general rule to encompass them all.

So as to not astray from the original reason why I posted, so that aquariest that are not chemists, and newbs dont get the idea they can take fish straight from the lfs and dump them in there tank..

Define what instances would determine whether a hobby could take fish directly from an lfs and dump them in there tank at home. What are the so many things that need to be taken into account, and how is that information suppose to be gathered or aquired?

In the defining this and that it is getting lost that most hobbiest do not check there gh and kh, most lfs do not give a run down of gh kh nitrates, how often they change there water, whether or not they put NaCl in there tanks, what meds are in there tank to prevent or combat ich, etc. the list could go on.

In no way should anyone ever be told not to acclimate there fish when they come from a different water source than there own. In some instances even when coming from two different tanks of your own they will need to be acclimatisd.

The argument here is really a moot point. Osmotic shock/PH shock is real, totally depends on what factors are there to cause it. Thats not to say that it is a given that just transferring fish from one source to another will cause this, at the end of the day, how do we know though? What causes osmotic shock? (taken from here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osmotic_shock)
Osmotic shock or osmotic stress is a sudden change in the solute concentration around a cell, causing a rapid change in the movement of water across its cell membrane. Under conditions of high concentrations of either salts, substrates or any solute in the supernatant water is drawn out of the cells through osmosis. This also inhibits the transport of substrates and cofactors into the cell thus “shocking” the cell. Alternatively, at low concentrations of solutes, water enters the cell in large amounts, causing it to swell and either burst or undergo apoptosis.[


As far as PH being used as a measurement for osmotic shock, hence where the name ph shock comes to play. As an example. If I add CC to my tank to raise the ph, it does so my buffering the water, raising the gh-kh, therefore raising the tds in my tank. PH on that tank is a direct indicator that the TDS is higher than it is in the other tank. I would never take fish from one of my own tanks that did not have cc in it, even if the ph was the same, and put them straightway into the tank with cc in it, that would be asking for osmotic shock.

While I do understand what is being said all the way around here, Im stating that in no way should anyone ever be told not to acclimate there fish. Educate them on when they will need to and circumstances where they don't need to, then leave it up to them. When you com home from the lfs and the only knowledge you have of your fish is the ph they were in at the store, that knowledge should be taken into account and IMO, for the sake of safety and health for the fish, it should be assumed that the water conditions require a transition from origin to destination.

Play it safe, acclimate your fish, its the easiest thing you can do for there health and well being.
 
I don't think anyone was saying that pH "does not have any" effect on fish...that would certainly be wrong. Just that a small sudden change in the pH should not shock your fish into death.

He said it is a myth, hence he says its incorrect and it does not have an effect on fish...

I'll leave it that, and let the thread get back on the thread op's topic...
 
Not that I have the slightest hopes of re-railing this thread, but did you call customer service today?

I dont think the thread has been derailed.. Only a discussion of how water changes can effect, and if it does.. IMO, it goes right along with the thread topic..

That being said, i am curious as to what caused this as well, keep us posted!
 
lost one more congo overnight, which brings the total up to 4. but everyone else is doing ok. the pleco is looking a lot better and made it through the night.

the pH out of my tap and in my tank are the same. it stays between 7.4 to 7.6. i highly doubt that shift would make that big a difference to my fish. i will be calling customer service to see if they added extra chloramine or anything else to the water. i dose for the whole tank.
 
Not so. Fish are largely insensitive to pH. If the TDS (best approximated by GH and/or KH) has changed significantly that can stress fish, but this old "pH shock" thing is a myth; many fish live in waters which change by over a point in a few hours; I regularly move fish from a pH 7.4 QT tank to a pH 6.0 display tank (same water but peat filtered and CO2 injected) with no ill effects.

He said it is a myth, hence he says its incorrect and it does not have an effect on fish...

He said "pH shock" is a myth. He didn't say pH does not have any effect on fish.
 
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