do fish feel pain

[slipknottin]

I had already asked you not to refer to it as "pain stimuli" as it doesnt cause pain. Its the chemicals emitted in the brain that your aware of when you feel pain.

Your attempting to change the argument with a poor appeal to peoples morals or values. This is not a debate of morals or values, this is actually not even a debate. Technically to be a debate both sides need to have proficient evidence and understanding of their case. That isnt whats going on here.

There is an obvious prejudice where people will refuse to accept that some animals are not conciously aware or cant feel pain. There is no indication that fish do feel pain. Attempting to change the emphasis of the debate by explaning how you, personally, dont know if infants feel pain does not support your argument. Your attempt to argue that we can not communicate with them means we dont know is certainly not true. We do indeed know if the cerebral hemispheres of a human are destroyed, a comatose, vegetative state results. Your attempt at arguing that we dont know what dolphins feel is neither contributory nor meaningful to either side in this debate.

So, your only actual argument is that we should assume something feels something. Thats a fairly poor argument at best, and I believe history has taught us not to assume. This is quite similar to everyone believing the world is flat, or that T-Rex was a hunter. Both prejudice's people have based on nothing more than individual reactions or ideas, not based on scientific or other factual evidence.

 

[tricksterpup]

Originally posted by wetmanNY
Serious folks don't doubt this. Fish do not feel anxiety about what the future may hold, however. Nor do they take out car loans...

Gosh, My betta was able to co-sign for me.. hmm..
Not sure if fish feel pain or not, I am not even sure if those reading this feel pain. But i do know this, fish will not feel pain from humilation. So you can mock your goldfish, he won't care.

 

[slipknottin]

Originally posted by tricksterpup

But all creatures with an advanced nervous system has pain sensors. Fish feel pain..

No, not all animals with an advanced nervous system have pain sensors. Just evidence of another prejudice many people hold, and a lack of teaching neuroscience in school. Fish have the simplest nervous system of any vertebrate.

Pain "sensors" (there are really no such things)would need to be located in specilized region in the cerebral hemispheres. Such regions are only evident in mammals.

 

[BettaFish]

I had already asked you not to refer to it as "pain stimuli" as it doesnt cause pain. Its the chemicals emitted in the brain that your aware of when you feel pain.

It does not matter what you want to call it -- there is no reason why a debate should not occur in laymen's terms that make it easy for all parties (participants and observers) to understand.

I'd also like to point out that people were asked by the author to express an opinion, not to engage in a debate with you.

I wish parents the world over would teach their children some manners.

 

[slipknottin]

Originally posted by BettaFish


It does not matter what you want to call it -- there is no reason why a debate should not occur in laymen's terms that make it easy for all parties (participants and observers) to understand.

I'd also like to point out that people were asked by the author to express an opinion, not to engage in a debate with you.

I wish parents the world over would teach their children some manners.

Oh, insulting

Thats not a layman term for it, its a wrong term. Its like calling an oscar a betta just because its easier to understand. The author asked if fish feel pain, I am explaning that they dont, no?

There is no such thing as "pain stimuli" If you want a word thats easier that refers to what your talking about, call it "injurious stimuli". "Because the experience of pain is separate from the behavioral response to injury, the term nociception is used to refer to detection of injury by the nervous system (which may or may not lead to pain). "

I find it quite humourous that you want to debate with a neuroscientist while only using "layman's terms"

 

[TheDuBdoNe]

ok Mr. NeuroScientist... if fish dont feel pain then why do we have fish psychologists and fish doctors... oh wait that doesnt work

i guess we have to see what the Pet Psychic says on the matter

 

[tricksterpup]

Originally posted by slipknottin


No, not all animals with an advanced nervous system have pain sensors. Just evidence of another prejudice many people hold, and a lack of teaching neuroscience in school. Fish have the simplest nervous system of any vertebrate.

Pain "sensors" (there are really no such things)would need to be located in specilized region in the cerebral hemispheres. Such regions are only evident in mammals.

I realized what I said here and caught myself. it was an oops in thought. Plus I read the article found it to be very interesting, not in the mood to go into depth with it here or today.

 

[fishlips]

I say fish feel pain. I've heard trees feel pain.

 

[slipknottin]

Originally posted by TheDuBdoNe
ok Mr. NeuroScientist... if fish dont feel pain then why do we have fish psychologists and fish doctors... oh wait that doesnt work

i guess we have to see what the Pet Psychic says on the matter

Im not, I was referring to the article posted above thats written by Dr. Rose.

 

[slipknottin]

Originally posted by fishlips
I say fish feel pain. I've heard trees feel pain.

So does your shirt. No really. It has a nervous system and feelings.

Seriously, even if trees did feel pain it does not imply that fish do. Your attempting to make connections bewteen entirely different things. Apples and Oranges.