Really, slip. Did you actually read the link? No. They did quote specific sources. Try again.
BTW you have been able to provide a single source. That's impressive.
BTW you have been able to provide a single source. That's impressive.
do fish feel pain
- Thread starter Dragon_Lord_Tia
- Start date
Where did they get the quotes? This isnt some news source that has interviews with people or has posted significant factual evidence. You cant take anything from the PETA website as valid material without referencing it to another site.
Instead of insulting first and checking facts later, I suggest you look at the article in question and where the information came from. There is a list of at least 15 sources.
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Wow. That sure is a convincing, logical argument.
I see you want me to do the work for you. This is interesting, considering you expect everyone to read the link you provided.
"according to Dr. Donald Broom, animal welfare advisor to the British government, 'The scientific literature is quite clear. Anatomically, physiologically and biologically, the pain system in fish is virtually the same as in birds and mammals. In animal welfare terms you have to put fishing into the same category as hunting.'"
"Michael K. Stoskopf, department head at the College of Veterinary Medicine at North Carolina State University, has found that fish exhibit the same basic responses to painful stimuli-including rapid startle reactions and simple nonspecific flight-that mammals do; they also produce biochemical compounds related to those produced by mammals when subjected to pain. Says Dr. Stoskopf, anglers are 'inflicting pain in a variety of ways to individuals.'"
"Dr. Austin Williams, a U.S. National Marine Fisheries Service zoologist, sums it up best. Fish 'are sentient organisms,' he says, 'so of course they feel pain.'"
It is a logical argument. Unless you can provide multiple sources for those quotes and where they came from they arent valid reliable sources.
If you want me to break it down for you I will easily negate any of those quotes from these so called "experts" (notice that none have degrees in neuroscience)
First, we have the quote from Dr. Donald Broom, who claims that "Anatomically, physiologically and biologically, the pain system in fish is virtually the same as in birds and mammals" But we know this isnt true. Just look at any picture of a comparison bewteen the size and structure of a mammal brain in comparison to a fish brain. What evidence does he use to support his reasoning?
As for Michael K. Stoskopf, he claims that fish respond to nociceptive stimulus, does this indicate pain? Certainly not. Pain and reaction to nociceptive stimuli are seperate things.
And finally we have Dr. Austin Williams, you says since fish are sentient organisms they feel pain. Of course, he too offers no proof or no support for his belief that fish are aware of their enviroment.
If you want me to break it down for you I will easily negate any of those quotes from these so called "experts" (notice that none have degrees in neuroscience)
First, we have the quote from Dr. Donald Broom, who claims that "Anatomically, physiologically and biologically, the pain system in fish is virtually the same as in birds and mammals" But we know this isnt true. Just look at any picture of a comparison bewteen the size and structure of a mammal brain in comparison to a fish brain. What evidence does he use to support his reasoning?
As for Michael K. Stoskopf, he claims that fish respond to nociceptive stimulus, does this indicate pain? Certainly not. Pain and reaction to nociceptive stimuli are seperate things.
And finally we have Dr. Austin Williams, you says since fish are sentient organisms they feel pain. Of course, he too offers no proof or no support for his belief that fish are aware of their enviroment.
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I would have to agree with slipnottin here. I can not take anything that PETA says at face value. I believe the entire organization to be driven purely by emotion with almost no reason at all. I could only trust thier quotes if I could see them from the original source. May I direct you here : http://www.consumerfreedom.com/headline_detail.cfm?HEADLINE_ID=1793
Also, CharlyBaltimore, I provided the link although slipnottin had surely read it as well.
Also, CharlyBaltimore, I provided the link although slipnottin had surely read it as well.
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Sure you did: http://www.aquariacentral.com/forum...d=6251&perpage=20&highlight=pain&pagenumber=4
Since fish have no feelings and cannot feel any pain whatsoever, it must be your viewpoint that filtration and feeding are akin to changing the oil on your car and filling it up with gas. It's nice to look at, so as long as the car runs, everything's fine. When it throws a rod, so what? You can always get another one. It must be really hard (...on your pocketbook) when you lose a fish.
There would be a lot less suffering in the world if more people would ask themselves, "What if that was me?"
Since fish have no feelings and cannot feel any pain whatsoever, it must be your viewpoint that filtration and feeding are akin to changing the oil on your car and filling it up with gas. It's nice to look at, so as long as the car runs, everything's fine. When it throws a rod, so what? You can always get another one. It must be really hard (...on your pocketbook) when you lose a fish.
There would be a lot less suffering in the world if more people would ask themselves, "What if that was me?"
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Yes, PETA is such a valid resource. Check this out
http://www.peta.org/mc/facts/fsc18.html
Wouldnt you want to rely on them for everything?
Oh man, this stuff is hilarious, look at their resons for not eating fish http://www.peta.org/mc/facts/fswild4.html
Haha, it might have fat, and in polluted areas it might be toxic.
http://www.peta.org/mc/facts/fsc18.html
Wouldnt you want to rely on them for everything?
Oh man, this stuff is hilarious, look at their resons for not eating fish http://www.peta.org/mc/facts/fswild4.html
Haha, it might have fat, and in polluted areas it might be toxic.
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From your link: "On several occasions, I caught fish who had hooks actually embedded in their lips. What had happened was, earlier in that fish's life, a hook had been lost by a fisherman and had embedded itself in the fish's lip. As the fish had grown, the lip had actually grown over the hook. [In some cases,] the hook had actually been swallowed by the fish and become embedded in the fish's stomach. The fish was actually pulled out by the gut. The fisherman would normally become frustrated and would pull the hook out, actually pulling the fish's guts out through the mouth." I'm sure that doesn't hurt.
I agree with them: "Get hooked on compassion".
I agree with them: "Get hooked on compassion".
