genetically enhanced fish

I don't know why I feel compelled... :(

Before I start, this hobby started off as a scientific endeavor and latter became a means of preserving rare and threatended species. To a smaller degree we too help in this effort, but in large part, we are simply ametuers compelled to manipulate nature for our own pleasure. Don't make this out to be anything more than it is. For some, this is simply a retreat from the world, for others its a way of life, and for a few, its a passion to keep those few species we can control with us a little bit longer to try and understand a little bit more about our world. <-I wish I was one...

Now, as for this topic: The first genetically modified organism by humans was NOT the Glo-Fish. For animals it was the Wolf/coyote, for plants it was the "primitive" corn (I forget the name). With better technology, we can created more unique (or radical) changes in species in a shorter amount of time. Nothing more, but in the end it's the same thing that we are changing! Hair color, body shape, behaviors...just in the past we had to wait what many felt was a more "acceptable" or comfortable amount of time, which gives many the false sense of safety. Neither is more or less "safe" than the other.

Do I gauk at a 250lbs Mastif (its the world's largets dog FYI)? You bet! Do I gauk at a glo-in-the-dark fish? You bet! Heck I gauk at people that shave their poodles, pierce their nipples, build a house on the side of a muddy hill, or dye their hair pink...You bet!, but that's me. Other's do NOT find this behavior or change radical or uneasy at all. Its a matter of perspective.

I say it's a matter of perspective given this very important statement: If the alteration is not one that causes stress (whether it be pain or otherwise), or the potential to be used in a harmful way (i.e. creating a super disease) - then I am okay with it.

If this helps: This world will not be able to support the Humane "BIOLOAD" (to use one of our terms) in the not-so-distant future. What are our options? We can't simple change the water, but we can reduce our waste and bioload on the planet (i.e. recycling, reduction in CO2 emissions etc.) OR we can create a food product that reduces its impact...

Over 1/2 the world's population goes to bed starving, not hungry. We currently utilize bio-engineered foods to grow corn and rice in arid regions just to slow this suffering. Is this bad as well? Are you going to be the one to tell them this is unethical?

Bah, I digress as I knew I would, sorry. Simply put, you have a choice. If everyone felt the same and did not purchase these "products", these fish would not exist on the market - period. Oh and why you're at it, bring back your kid's pet dog and cat too...
 
I'm not entirely sure how I feel about these fish. I've never seen them in person, but I did see a video on youtube that showed them. To be honest, though they're definitely unique, I thought they were pretty cool. They would probably be out of place in anything but a specific tank for themselves, but if one were going for a certain artistic look, it could be nice. Besides, since it is a harmless process, at least as far as we know, I don't see the ethical dillema.
 
I don't know why I feel compelled... :(

Before I start, this hobby started off as a scientific endeavor and latter became a means of preserving rare and threatended species. To a smaller degree we too help in this effort, but in large part, we are simply ametuers compelled to manipulate nature for our own pleasure. Don't make this out to be anything more than it is. For some, this is simply a retreat from the world, for others its a way of life, and for a few, its a passion to keep those few species we can control with us a little bit longer to try and understand a little bit more about our world. <-I wish I was one...

Now, as for this topic: The first genetically modified organism by humans was NOT the Glo-Fish. For animals it was the Wolf/coyote, for plants it was the "primitive" corn (I forget the name). With better technology, we can created more unique (or radical) changes in species in a shorter amount of time. Nothing more, but in the end it's the same thing that we are changing! Hair color, body shape, behaviors...just in the past we had to wait what many felt was a more "acceptable" or comfortable amount of time, which gives many the false sense of safety. Neither is more or less "safe" than the other.

Do I gauk at a 250lbs Mastif (its the world's largets dog FYI)? You bet! Do I gauk at a glo-in-the-dark fish? You bet! Heck I gauk at people that shave their poodles, pierce their nipples, build a house on the side of a muddy hill, or dye their hair pink...You bet!, but that's me. Other's do NOT find this behavior or change radical or uneasy at all. Its a matter of perspective.

I say it's a matter of perspective given this very important statement: If the alteration is not one that causes stress (whether it be pain or otherwise), or the potential to be used in a harmful way (i.e. creating a super disease) - then I am okay with it.

If this helps: This world will not be able to support the Humane "BIOLOAD" (to use one of our terms) in the not-so-distant future. What are our options? We can't simple change the water, but we can reduce our waste and bioload on the planet (i.e. recycling, reduction in CO2 emissions etc.) OR we can create a food product that reduces its impact...

Over 1/2 the world's population goes to bed starving, not hungry. We currently utilize bio-engineered foods to grow corn and rice in arid regions just to slow this suffering. Is this bad as well? Are you going to be the one to tell them this is unethical?

Bah, I digress as I knew I would, sorry. Simply put, you have a choice. If everyone felt the same and did not purchase these "products", these fish would not exist on the market - period. Oh and why you're at it, bring back your kid's pet dog and cat too...
Absolutely agree with the 'feed the world' thing....

This compels a fascinating point....

What matter most when a human makes the decision to genetically modify a creature:

(a) the motivation for doing so, is there anyone who would happily argue that gm is wrong when it can help stop people starving and dying

or is it

(b) the consequence of doing so. In the above food for the starving example, the consequence is a clear benfit.

So lets apply this to gm fish:

(a) the motivation was a conservation issue. However, it is now purely for our pleasure

(b) the consequence was originally environmental concern and control of pollution, it is now unknown and random....isnt that a serious concern...where will it end on this one?

So, where does that leave us?
 
I would just like to mention that there may be some as-yet undiscovered problem with the genetic codes of these fish. We know enough to play with genetics, but we still have no idea how the gesalt will be affected by seemingly simple changes on the inside.

I read awhile back about some genetically engineered trout. They were albinos. They were developed and released into popular fly-fishing streams to make it easier for sport fishermen to find them. Unfortunately, it made it easier for predators to find them too. Not to mention that they tasted bad and often died of sunburn.

Honestly, like most here, I don't have a problem with the activity. In relation to the Glo-fish themselves, I would say that these are definately pets. Probably, they wouldn't survive well in the wild. Too bright and all that.

These types of experiments have already been conducted on mice. Yes, glow-in-the-dark mice. I'm actually surprised that they haven't been marketed yet.

In my thinking, we're nearing the limit of what is reasonable in terms of GM animals. There's really no point to most things like that. Maybe cows that grow twice as fast or bacteria that absorb greenhouse gases or something. But, you know, as soon as someone GMs a lizard with wings... millions will stand in line to buy a baby dragon.

Plants, though, are another story. We have only begun the possibilities of plants. Everything from desert reclamation to feeding starving nations may be possible in the near future.
 
haha. its of course both consequence and motivation. Some people may be morally against the alteration of "god's creations". Others may not have a problem with that but are afraid of what could become of genetically modified organisms. I think it all depends on your background, culture, and morale ideals.
 
that is obvious because the nature of consequence and motivation are wholly defined by emotion

Well put.

As for the dangers of genetically modified organisms, it is simply not any greater than breeding the hard way - Again it just makes the process "faster".

And as for humans doing this; we are affecting every living thing on this planet whetehr we like it or not. Those creatures are adapting with or without our help. Does the level of direct involvement and/or the pace at which change is caused rrally matter? the end is the same.

And let's not forget Nature's own blunders throughout our natural history!!! Exctinctions and mass die offs due to the arrival of new species like we have never seen before has already occured multiple times already! I'm going to get the names wrong, but the Jurasic and the Crustacious Periods. Now those were Dog-Eat-Dog worlds!

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not for the manipulation of an organism for the simply reason of providing me with some personal pleasure (ie. new fish species), I just don't think that's right (or to use the word: ethical). Again, "If the alteration is not one that causes stress (whether it be pain or otherwise), or the potential to be used in a harmful way (i.e. creating a super disease) - then I am okay with it." Others feel differently, and you now what - That's OKAY!

However, it really isn't any more or less of an issue as it has always been in the past, and that's my point. If the arguement is about the dangers, there really is none (ethically, yes, you have a position). Of course there will always be unknowns and possible dangers.

...but hey I can create a Super Bee from a simple Honey Bee and a small African Bee, what can be the harm in only one generation!?!?! :eek:
 
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