Hardy mid to high light plants

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Riptiide

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Jun 27, 2016
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You are right about that, but I'm sure you know what I meant. I did put medium in parenthesis. It's the "Watts per gallon" guideline, I didn't come up with that. Sure it is rough (doesn't account for depth, or bulb length/type, for one) but it works very well in the home aquarium and there is no need to complicate it for hobbyists.
For your sake, we can convert it to "Lumen per gallon" and you can use it for LEDS, too. It equals to about 75 Lumen per gallon for low light, ±150 LPG for medium light and ±225+ for high light.
Using my new calculation (1050/10), you can see the 1050 Lumen LED would work very well in a 10 gallon tank.
^ ignore the quote i read all your replies
Thanks for all the useful info. So you recommend t5’s is what I’m hearing. I know you said that bright to humans is not bright to plants so how bright are these lights to us? I want to assume they’re insanely bright to us but I know that’s not how it works.
three more questions if you don’t mind:
what are some other useful lights that you’d recommend (up to mid light I guess)?
Can my anubias regrow itself just from a rhizome alone? I know leaves are what absorbs lights so im wondering
Lastly how did my anubias manage to survive (and grow) for more than a year in the “dark”?
 

fishorama

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Jun 28, 2006
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No, don't buy T-5s!! Mine are old & bulbs are expensive to replace every 6-12 months (probably more than I actually do). LEDs are less expensive to run, bulbs last much longer & probably similar in cost to new T-5s.

The hard part is learning what LEDs to get for your tank size & plants to get to "medium" light. I'm not there yet as you can tell. There is a lot of different info out there & here too. I was hoping you'd get a better answer here, but part of it may be that you asked about high light in your thread title. I think you'd be happier at a low to medium level to be able to grow some plants well...but certainly not all.

I have seen anubias come back from leaf loss (due to medications or heat?). But I have also had a couple that had some kind of virus or rhizome rot, just a few thin brown fibers down the middle. I tried cutting back to healthy tissue several times but it came back & I tossed the plants (2 different sources & species of anubias). Are absolutely sure you flowerhorn didn't nibble it? I'm sure there are many hours a day you're not watching...tender new growth might be tempting.

I'm concerned that java fern didn't grow for you. I've kept in very low light, growth was slow. But could it be that what seemed like a dying plant was adjusting to your tank? Old leaves turn brown at least at the edges but that can also be a sign that those leaves are going to produce baby fernlets better adjusted to their current conditions. Maybe you gave up too soon? Even an almost dead looking leaf floating around a tank eventually can grow new plantlets.

Just some thoughts, but not on your LEDs...& that's what you need right now. I think perhaps starting a new thread about LEDs would get you better advice than the 3 of us answering your original question (high light plants...LEDs... & with a flowerhorn). I know there are many with LEDs that might help you that have none of those but LEDs & what plants they can grow.

You might also google flowerhorn & plants & LEDs to get a more focused answer. I don't know anyone who keeps that combo...BIG hybrid fish & plants of any kind. I've only seen them in bare bottom shop tanks...maybe for a reason?
 

dougall

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Mar 29, 2005
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Missorama... If you do have questions, start a thread, or send me a pm or email or something.. it's not that bad, but 5erribly convoluted by internet rules of thumb.. I honestly haven't looked at the specific lights here, but I will do.. there are so many options, and so many variables, I tend to go with either reviews or too much light and a dimmer.

Loach, if you want to bandy around measurable numbers, use PAR or PUR, at a linear distance directly below the light. Lumens and watts are both pretty useless when it comes to aquariums.

Watts is the amount of power used, not even relatable to the amount of light produced, lumens is the amount of light produced in the human visible spectrum.. not what will be usable by plants, which will depend on the plants used, and the different colors of chlorofil used in photosynthesis. If you want to keep it simple, using reviews or PAR charts from an independent party are far more useful than what is written on the box.

Lumens are also a 3 dimensional figure for most bulbs, and is less than 2 dimensional for most LEDs. Not really equatable.

The volume of the aquarium is not useful, if anything the distance from the fixture to the plant or whatever is what you would want to look for. With a few minutes of Google you should be able to find a standard PAR chart, which will show the amount of PAR (amount of light that will grow plants) at distances from the emitter/fixture at certain deprhs to show how that light penetrates and disperses.
 

dougall

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Mar 29, 2005
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Riptiide,

Sorry for the diversion.

The light looks to be fine, assuming it's the 4 foot model,

I would question water parameters,

If the pothos is growing, that will suck nutrients from the water, your flowerhorn will not produce all needed nutrients, mostly nitrogen, and maybe some other things from the food.

I would try taking out the pothos and growing it elsewhere, see how things grow.. I would try something like valisneria with that sort of hardness. If you start to get algae, reintroduce the pothos.

If you are sure it's too much light, try to suspend it further above the tank than it currently is; but I doubt that's the problem, especially as you aren't cursing a huge algae problem.
 

the loach

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Aug 6, 2018
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I didn't write I recommended T5's, just that you get the appropriate amount of lighting in there. Dougall is wrong in about everything he wrote in his post above, or it's not of use to the normal hobbyist. The "internet" Watts per gallon/Lumen is not a useless guideline it works very well for home aquariums and has helped probably tens to hundreds of thousands of hobbyists over the past 2 decades. It will work for you too to grow plants or see whey they don't grow.
All plants, even Java ferns, need a minimum amount of light or they'll eventually die. It is different per plant but it is not "I can still see the plant so it has enough light to live"
The shape of the bulb is irrelevant. Lumen is the total quantity of visible light by a source in a direction. It does not matter whether it is a Led strip or a fluorescent bulb. I can testify to that as I experiment with both fluorescent bulbs as Leds and an equal factory rated output in Lumen looks identical.

It's also not true that most Leds "are less expensive" to run "last much longer" and "similar in cost". I have shown time and time again on this forum, that this is simply not true by showing factory specifications and international standards. (for example here https://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/threads/fluorescent.290735/post-2969892 )

All of these are generic sales pitches. There some Leds that are more economic (but not that much) as small fluorescents, however typically those are never aimed at aquaria. Leds do have some other benefits that oddly enough the Led advocates ignore. But then they have to ignore or bend units and specifications as well, in that light it is pretty much the same as reasoning with a flat earther.

So if you say the light is so bright (I have a 1000 Lumen 6500K LED as well, I can't look in it either, but that doesn't mean anything) either the link you provided with the 1050 Lumen is not the right one, or you are simply underpowered. Whether you get a T5 or Led doesn't matter for the plants, get the Lumen up together with nitrate and a pH under 7.5 and you will have no difficulty growing plants as long as the flowerhorn doesn't shred them.

It is not magic or complicated stuff I have been growing aquatic plants for well over 40 years, I throw buckets of them away each week, just following the simple guidelines I told you.
 
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dougall

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Mar 29, 2005
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Sorry for wasting everyone's time 🤣

The best of luck.
 

the loach

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Aug 6, 2018
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You're not wasting my time (and I don't think anyone else) when you're right I'll tell you you're right and when you're wrong I'll tell you you're wrong.
 

dougall

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Mar 29, 2005
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It's wasting my time to try to add to this conversation.

I assume you have it all under control. Enjoy.
 

fishorama

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Jun 28, 2006
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I think, dougall, you're right, that Riptide's light are fine. The link was for the smallest LED size, not what Riptide has. As to what plants might do well with them & the flowerhorn, I'd still go with low to medium light 1s. Just try a few at a time to see how each type does. I didn't consider the pothos removing so much nitrate etc. that it could actually kill java fern & anubias...I'm still a bit skeptical, lol. I've grown them in dechlorinated tap & minimal light for several months.

As for the general LED light issue I still don't know. I see conflicting advice not just here but in my plant club & other plant sites. Some has been going on for years now as the tech & info improves with different plant/tank goals & sizes too.

Good luck Riptide
 

the loach

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Aug 6, 2018
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Riptide does not mention a size except for the link (?), but you are right you can select other sizes and this will change the specifications. So it must be the 47"-56". However this one is still only 2400 Lumen which equates to ±32 Lumen per gallon. So getting another one would bring it in the low light zone.
Note they do not claim it is sufficient for plant growth. Just "Suitable for all freshwater, cichlids, and marine fish only setups"

I am not against LEDS at all, I grow aquatic plants in several tanks with LEDs, but stuff like a LED Lumen is more as a fluorescent Lumen or any LED is sufficient for a tank is just not true.
 
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