Healthy Angelfish with stuff hanging from his fins - keeps going away and coming back

Eureka, maybe...

In brief:
Open top tank, I added water to replace evaporation - 1 bucket = 3.5 gallons.
I use 1ml of Prime (10 gallons) for each bucket. I used warm water about the same temperature of the tank, and did not wait 24 hours.
I noticed the angel was parked mid way in the large sword plant's leaves, fins clamped - usually she greets me and begs for food and dominates any other fish... I started testing water conditions - below:


Water Conditions:
pH 6.8
Ammonia 0 (0.25 after water change)
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 20
Temp 79 degrees

What I found out:
  1. Washington, DC Water must have an enormous amount of Chloramine - le sigh...
  2. I tested the water composition after the water was topped off and I noted an ammonia spike of 0.25. The rest of the parameters are above.
  3. I added 5ml of Prime directly to the tank.
  4. Redrew the water from tap and tested both tank water and a bucket of tap water conditioned with 1ml of Prime.
  5. Ammonia levels dropped in the tank, but tap water still showed 0.25 ammonia after treatment.

Hypothesis:
Washington, DC water sucks - I will test the water composition before I add any more water to the tank during the next water change (Saturday). I may need to add more than 3x the dose of Prime per bucket. I'm tempted to drop 6ml of Prime in 10 gallons I change.
The ammonia spike is stressing my angel - Thus the reoccurrence of the finrot - it doesn't last probably because the water quality quickly clears up.

Questions:
  1. Should I still treat the fish for the mild case of fin rot with QT and Furan-2 for 4 days or should I just watch the water?
  2. I don't think the tank is cycling again, I haven't done anything to the water/filter/substrate other than move a plant and trim the stemmed plants. Could this be a possibility... What can cause this outside of the a
bove?


Please see linked videos of the tank and fish. The first one is before the top off - notice clean fins. The second is after the water top off.
[video=youtube;LBVpWZTQS2M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBVpWZTQS2M[/video]

[video=youtube;tj4Fl-geTa8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tj4Fl-geTa8[/video]
 
looked it up, no listing of chlorine and chloramine, but we have arsenic, haloacetic acid, and trihalomethanes - all above health limits limits :) I use a filtration system for my water.

The sad thing is it's better than the national average! most places have 4 chemicals that are listed as bad...

I think the chloramine is so high that Prime can only convert some of it and some of the remaining ammonia, so i have to do a huge dose - I will test this next time. 1ml I use a syringe to measure (10 gallons worth) for 3.5 gallon bucket is a lot.

I assume that the other fish are a) less sensitive b) don't have an underlying infection.
 
You called it :) None have died - I gave the three I had just gotten to another friend who wants to breed them - I had them only a week or so. What I got in return was a really red, now I know it's a male, Koi who puts up with the female's bossy attitude - and a pair what I think are blue zebra - I have never seen angels like this with the stripes and spots - their fins iridesce a blueish color when the light strikes them.

What gets me is that you can tell their gender from the short video. I still have a hard time and I see them every day.

It was one of the zebras that I called "Elmer Fudd" because the first three days it tried quite unsuccessfully to hunt the tetras - no other angel I've had has done that so I thought they may have a little wild type in this pair, I don't know. It gave up and enjoys being hand fed... If I see any angel going after the neons, with any success, I'll move all the neons to another tank and replace them with a slightly larger schooling fish.
 
Either that I thought you may be in the field of graphics or expert in Video Editing.

I thought zebras were much larger than one in prev pics/vid as well. I didnt get good enough or long enough shots of new zebras to determine their gender. Perhaps later with more vid.

Although Koi in question looks better, not completely ourt of woods yet. Perhaps you should stop using Prime on top-off water as small amt Cl or NH2Cl areactually disinfectants that can assist with certain infections as Maroxy by Mardel is such product if memory serves.
Just trying to eliminate every possible causes on at a time.

Small amt of any possible NH3 derived from NH2Cl is nothing to worry about at 6.8 pH.

And only use instructed amt of dechlorinator during wc, added/stirred to new water before adding to main tank & observe any changes in Koi's appearances.


I havent touch dechlorinator for few decades with no ill effects since my local water does not contain NH2Cl. I just age/stir well before using.
Even it did, I know other ways to break the bond b/n Cl and NH3 and end products can easily be controlled before using.

Now Ive digested my late meal, time to hit the sack! Good Night or rather Good Morning !
 
Just my iPhone - easy - upload to Youtube and go... Amazing what technology does.

  1. The rot is back on the two ventral fins, rest of the fins seem normal.
  2. Yesterday switched from feeding them blood worms just to rule out allergy - Tetra flakes and Hikari mini crisps now. I'll do this for about a couple more days to verify diet.
  3. Tomorrow is weekly 30% water change - I will monitor the water before adding it to the tank.
  4. CO2 cart died - I need to reduce photo op time by 50% and add Excel until I get a replacement so algae doesn't get out of hand.
  5. If all else fails - I will set up QT sometime next week and give him 4 days dose of Furan-2.

Please see video below:

[video=youtube;SrmJiuVP3X0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrmJiuVP3X0[/video]




Cerianthus said:
Either that I thought you may be in the field of graphics or expert in Video Editing.

I thought zebras were much larger than one in prev pics/vid as well. I didnt get good enough or long enough shots of new zebras to determine their gender. Perhaps later with more vid.

Although Koi in question looks better, not completely ourt of woods yet. Perhaps you should stop using Prime on top-off water as small amt Cl or NH2Cl areactually disinfectants that can assist with certain infections as Maroxy by Mardel is such product if memory serves.
Just trying to eliminate every possible causes on at a time.

Small amt of any possible NH3 derived from NH2Cl is nothing to worry about at 6.8 pH.

And only use instructed amt of dechlorinator during wc, added/stirred to new water before adding to main tank & observe any changes in Koi's appearances.


I havent touch dechlorinator for few decades with no ill effects since my local water does not contain NH2Cl. I just age/stir well before using.
Even it did, I know other ways to break the bond b/n Cl and NH3 and end products can easily be controlled before using.

Now Ive digested my late meal, time to hit the sack! Good Night or rather Good Morning !
Click to expand...
 
sundragon said:
I think the chloramine is so high that Prime can only convert some of it and some of the remaining ammonia, so i have to do a huge dose - I will test this next time. 1ml I use a syringe to measure (10 gallons worth) for 3.5 gallon bucket is a lot.
Click to expand...

I can always tell when my water company doses the water supply with chloramine, as the smell is quite strong for a couple of days per month. I've never increased amount of Prime used, however, and haven't had a problem. I believe it contains salts that encourage slime coat production, so I'm wondering if perhaps overdosing the Prime is contributing to the problem?
 
I've had similar incidents over the years.. I noted this only occurred after water changes using prime as the conditioner.
after a day or two my angels were fine.
Prime does have additives which "promotes production and regeneration of the natural slime coat" .

it appeared to me that certain spots the slime coat that sluffed off would accumulate on the tips of the ventral and anal fins.. I would also notice some on the pectoral fins...especially noted when I accidentally would use too much Prime.
 
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