Where are you getting the idea that 4-8 ppm ammonia is not a problem at a neutral pH? Please cite your source as I find your statement crazy and dangerous.
High ammonia levels in cichlid tank (55g)
- Thread starter Roody
- Start date
Toxicity of NH3 depends mainly on pH and temp, Ammonium(NH4+) & Ammonia(NH3). Google Toxicity of NH3 in water, should be able to find the table to figure out actual toxic form of [ NH3].
Yes, I know the more acidic the water the less toxic the ammonia as it is in the ionized ammonium form. But a neutral pH doesn't mean ammonia is not toxic. It's still toxic no matter what. Please cite a reliable source saying it's not toxic. Telling me to google the toxic form of NH3 is silly, NH3 is the more toxic form but NH4+ is not harmless.
Considering how densely decorated the bottom of your tank is, when was the last time you gravel vac-ed?
Traces of the BL would be found if it had died, an arm or a leg. Since there was no remnants and you seem to have an open top, there might be a possibility that the BL crawled out looking for a new water source when the ammonia levels were rising.
Stir a corner of your gravel bed and report back what happens.
Traces of the BL would be found if it had died, an arm or a leg. Since there was no remnants and you seem to have an open top, there might be a possibility that the BL crawled out looking for a new water source when the ammonia levels were rising.
Stir a corner of your gravel bed and report back what happens.
This is elelmentary topic! Not being silly at all. Utilize the proven facts.
It is not just acidic or alkaline as major turning point from NH4+ to NH3 is around 7.4. Like I said, should be able to find the chart to figure out [NH3].
Try http://www.dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html
Correction: 8 ppm of Total Ammonia @ 7.2 pH & 80F has about .080 ppm according to the chart.
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The problem is you don't know if he's using a Nessler test kit.
If he's using a Salicylate test kit (the norm really, for most liquid drop kits available from pet stores) then his kit is reading toxic ammonia, not combined NH3 & NH4plus.
Now, a reading of 8 ppm with healthy fish in a tank for a Salicylate test kit is basically bonkers. But I don't know which one the OP is using, hence why I asked (my suspicion being that it might be a paper test strip kit, in which case I'd ignore it and buy a reliable liquid drop kit).
Its important for anyone with less experience than yourself with water chemistry (Cerianthus) to know that they can't use their e.g. API Master Test Kit with those cross-referenced charts, which is why I responded to this discrete issue
If he's using a Salicylate test kit (the norm really, for most liquid drop kits available from pet stores) then his kit is reading toxic ammonia, not combined NH3 & NH4plus.
Now, a reading of 8 ppm with healthy fish in a tank for a Salicylate test kit is basically bonkers. But I don't know which one the OP is using, hence why I asked (my suspicion being that it might be a paper test strip kit, in which case I'd ignore it and buy a reliable liquid drop kit).
Its important for anyone with less experience than yourself with water chemistry (Cerianthus) to know that they can't use their e.g. API Master Test Kit with those cross-referenced charts, which is why I responded to this discrete issue
Using that chart, the levels the OP posted are toxic levels. If ammonia wasn't toxic then why do fish die when cycling when a tank has a low pH? According to the chart, fish shouldn't be dying of ammonia poisoning because it's not toxic until it's extremely high. No way would I ever advocate someone subject their fish to any level of ammonia.
The problem is you don't know if he's using a Nessler test kit.
If he's using a Salicylate test kit (the norm really, for most liquid drop kits available from pet stores) then his kit is reading toxic ammonia, not combined NH3 & NH4plus.
Now, a reading of 8 ppm with healthy fish in a tank for a Salicylate test kit is basically bonkers. But I don't know which one the OP is using, hence why I asked (my suspicion being that it might be a paper test strip kit, in which case I'd ignore it and buy a reliable liquid drop kit).
Its important for anyone with less experience than yourself with water chemistry (Cerianthus) to know that they can't use their e.g. API Master Test Kit with those cross-referenced charts, which is why I responded to this discrete issue
If memory serves both methods of testing registers total ammonia. Nessler reagents for f/w only and sali for both f/w & s/w. I think they were referring to binders if anyone uses such binders to yield distorted reading such as Prime/Ammo-lock, etc, etc. Since OP used Ammo-Lock few times, I will allow some credit to binder issue with Nessler reagents Onlyif OP used one reagent NH3 test kits (Nessler reagents).
As you probably know and from my experiences, each fish has different threshold point. Use calculated datas to determine actual [conc] but those zones are in general terms as If all the fish were that intolerable as per red color zones, our test kits would have been desgined in much smaller incrediments and ALL Threads related .25 presence of NH3 or bit higher should have experienced total loss which is not the case.
I dont recall any fish loss due to presence of high total NH3 when pH was near neutral or lower during or even in tanks suffering from so called Old Tank Syndrome.
Perhaps others who had mishaps during cycling may not have considered other factors which may affected final outcome such as sudden spike of NO2 from such high presence [NH3], etc, etc..
I think too many just panic when NH3 is mentioned.
My main concern for OP's tank is on any possibility of fish being exposed to high [NH3] in higher pH than 7.2 before the post in which case hope for the best and/or pH may somehow increase in presence of such high [NH3].
Let's just continue with small wc/less feeding to lower the NH3 in order to prevent possible sudden spike of NO2.
Good Luck with reestablishing BB and hope all goes well!
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