High ammonia levels in cichlid tank (55g)

[Lab_Rat]

How will a small wc prevent a NO2 spike? I understand not changing things rapidly with old tank syndrome, but small wc won't put a dent in the pending NO2 spike when ammonia is reading 4-8 ppm. OP, if it were my tank, I'd be doing major water changes daily until ammonia and nitrite are both undetectable. I still say something is way off in an 18 month old tank unplanted with zero nitrates and some decent sized cichlids.

Cerianthus, I will not be exposing my fish to ammonia readings of 4-8 ppm, no matter how low I drive the pH. Ammonia is not good for fish period.

 

[Coler]

I get what you're saying - and its extremely interesting to me. I definitely need to read around this area a bit more - I should make clear I have no scientific/chemistry qualifications at all, I'm just an aquarium enthusiast.

I guess I will in the meantime though be abiding by what my test kit (API - sali) is telling me - and if I see positive for ammonia I'm not a happy bunny

I do want to dig out some stuff which I found before about the two test methods and what they are producing as results for our purposes - it would be very interesting to me if it is the case that one should in fact use the chart typically provided with a Nessler test kit when testing using Salicylate reagent.

Thanks for the reply

 

[Cerianthus]

How will a small wc prevent a NO2 spike? I understand not changing things rapidly with old tank syndrome, but small wc won't put a dent in the pending NO2 spike when ammonia is reading 4-8 ppm. OP, if it were my tank, I'd be doing major water changes daily until ammonia and nitrite are both undetectable. I still say something is way off in an 18 month old tank unplanted with zero nitrates and some decent sized cichlids.

Cerianthus, I will not be exposing my fish to ammonia readings of 4-8 ppm, no matter how low I drive the pH. Ammonia is not good for fish period.

"I dont expect you to" as all I am trying to do here is to assist OP's tank to my best ability w/o disturbing anymore than need to be and for anyone who may want to take NH3 issues much further than just PANIC...

Enough Small WC/less feeding (as needed as posted prev) to lower present [NH3] (less NH3 with time) will def affect possible high [NO2] spike.

I think OP said already done massive change(s) and PERHAPS such drastic measure many have provoked/resulted in worst scenario on what was well established tank as I have experienced similar scenarios on numerous experiments..

Question here is not just how to control NH3 but why sudden increase in NH3 in order to prevent it from happening again on OP's tank which seemed to be well under control for last 18 months.
If BL died, I expected to be gorged by inhabitants (nothing much to rot and cause NH3 problem) thus minimal or should I say slower increase in NH3, if any, in such well established tank unless provoked/disturbed by other factors such as massive WC, etc, etc..

OP, how are the livestocks and pH/NH3/NO2 today?

 

[Coler]

All of this is of course intended to help the OP above all else.

What I can't see is how a very large water change could cause spikes in ammonia/nitrite. If the common position that utterly insignificant amounts of beneficial bacteria reside in the water column this should not produce either spikes in ammonia/nitrite, or complete lack of nitrates in a test sample of the refilled tank. I don't understand how (explain if possible please) a massive water change is going to produce damage to the bio filter, or increase in ammonia in tank.

Blue lobster may or may not have been chewed up by inhabitants. If he was ate, I would not expect to see such a big spike so suddenly. I probably wouldn't expect that scale of a spike in any event even if he rotted, and if he rotted he would have floated at some point, most likely.

Everything I see so far says the test results are unreliable, subject to the OP confirming what kind of test kit is in use.

 

[Roody]

4-8 ppm of NH3 presence at pH of 7.2 is not a problem as long as pH dont rise above what it is now so dont go too crazy as your fish have not/may not display NH3 poisoning effects yet, I hope.

Make sure tap pH is same or bit lower than tank's pH, NOT higher than 7.2.
If tap's pH is higher than 7.2, post its actual value.

Unnecessary sudden/drastic changes can yield worst situations. Just concentrate on lowering NH3 for now in order to minimize any chances of sudden spikes of NO2.

What percent of WC should I do and how often until the ammonia gets under control?

 

[Roody]

Considering how densely decorated the bottom of your tank is, when was the last time you gravel vac-ed?

Traces of the BL would be found if it had died, an arm or a leg. Since there was no remnants and you seem to have an open top, there might be a possibility that the BL crawled out looking for a new water source when the ammonia levels were rising.

Stir a corner of your gravel bed and report back what happens.

I am going to need to run a good gravel vac on it as there was quite a bit of dirt kick up. Is there a good reliable vac you guys recommend?

 

[Roody]

The problem is you don't know if he's using a Nessler test kit.

If he's using a Salicylate test kit (the norm really, for most liquid drop kits available from pet stores) then his kit is reading toxic ammonia, not combined NH3 & NH4plus.

Now, a reading of 8 ppm with healthy fish in a tank for a Salicylate test kit is basically bonkers. But I don't know which one the OP is using, hence why I asked (my suspicion being that it might be a paper test strip kit, in which case I'd ignore it and buy a reliable liquid drop kit).

Its important for anyone with less experience than yourself with water chemistry (Cerianthus) to know that they can't use their e.g. API Master Test Kit with those cross-referenced charts, which is why I responded to this discrete issue

I'm using a API freshwater Master test kit.

 

[Roody]

How will a small wc prevent a NO2 spike? I understand not changing things rapidly with old tank syndrome, but small wc won't put a dent in the pending NO2 spike when ammonia is reading 4-8 ppm. OP, if it were my tank, I'd be doing major water changes daily until ammonia and nitrite are both undetectable. I still say something is way off in an 18 month old tank unplanted with zero nitrates and some decent sized cichlids.

Cerianthus, I will not be exposing my fish to ammonia readings of 4-8 ppm, no matter how low I drive the pH. Ammonia is not good for fish period.

I agree something is way off. My tank was running fine for the longest time. My levels were excellent and yet all of a sudden they spiked. At one time I did have roughly 22 fish, algae eaters and a snail combined, but that number is down to 18 now. I really can't figure out what caused it or why.

 

[Coler]

I'm using a API freshwater Master test kit.

Man - those are savage readings on that test kit for ammonia (4 - 8 ppm !).

Did you check its still in date ? (four numbers on each bottle are mm/yy - its good for 2 years from that date).

If it was me personally, presuming a well maintained tank (i.e. generally showing 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 20 - 40 nitrate) and I had a spike, I'd do a very large water change. Retest and check for nitrite as well. Water change (whatever necessary to take ammonia to 0, or nitrite if that arises).

What I don't understand is how you are showing those really high levels of ammonia with live fish in there, and have no nitrate readings in an established tank - because nothing you've said indicates how the nitrates are coming out at 0 (presume you are shaking bottle 2 for 30 secs before adding and shaking solution for 1 minute when bottle 2 has been added).

Anyway, I'd be water changing, a lot, in your position.

 

[Roody]

Man - those are savage readings on that test kit for ammonia (4 - 8 ppm !).

Did you check its still in date ? (four numbers on each bottle are mm/yy - its good for 2 years from that date).

If it was me personally, presuming a well maintained tank (i.e. generally showing 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 20 - 40 nitrate) and I had a spike, I'd do a very large water change. Retest and check for nitrite as well. Water change (whatever necessary to take ammonia to 0, or nitrite if that arises).

What I don't understand is how you are showing those really high levels of ammonia with live fish in there, and have no nitrate readings in an established tank - because nothing you've said indicates how the nitrates are coming out at 0 (presume you are shaking bottle 2 for 30 secs before adding and shaking solution for 1 minute when bottle 2 has been added).

Anyway, I'd be water changing, a lot, in your position.

Thanks for the help Coler. I am at a loss here. My kits date is well within acceptable time. I am going to take a sample tomorrow to a local LFS and have them test my water also for a second opinion just in case. My fish act completely fine right now. It's really weird. Those ammonia numbers are brutal and yet they are swimming around like nothing is wrong.