If you have extra filteration, can you overstock your tank?

I guess this one goes back o the same mentality as the hybrid fish topic.

My simple answer is "no, it is not okay to overstoc just because you have extra filtration"

It all gets down to a very fundamental level. Is the hobby about the fish or about you?

If the answer is "THE FISH", then no eplanations are needed. As a matter of fact the question would never be asked.

If the answer is "YOU" then no amount of discussion will change your desire to squeeze as many fish into a confined space as possible.

Stocking levels, like hybrids, are something that is not dependent upon filtration. It is dependent upon the needs of the fish. Room to grow is as essential as room once grown. Proper fin, musculature, organ and body shape does not occur in an overstocked tank. Hormones given off by larger and dominant fish will retard the growth of the others in the tank. Stress factors increase which increases the opportunity for disease and shortened lives--i gotta stop I will get on a rant.

Fish should thrive--not just survive--in our tanks.
 
Okay, you guys are not listening! ALL of my fish are still growing. Do you think, at the rate redtail cats grow, that he's been 20" for very long? Do you think the fast growing arowana has been 2' for long? Cichlids grow pretty quickly as well, do you think they've all been that big their entire lives? Only 6 months ago, it was a pretty different story in that tank. And what am I doing only 6 months later? Investing in a 200g with plans of an outdoor pond. I think I've kept pretty good care of my friends. It kills me for them to be uncomfortable. The responsibility it takes to care for this tank along with upgrading from one huge tank to a bigger one so voluntarily (instead of bashing them with rocks), makes me think I'm doing the right thing for them.
I think some of you forgot how this thread started. I was simply stating, based on professional water testing, that a tank CAN exist if overstocked. It's only information. What if someone out there winds up killing their pets because they think they won't survive anyway? Would you rather DIE than share a one bedroom apartment?
My tank has not been overstocked for long, and I'M doing the responsible thing for them by upgrading in 2 months.
I take offense that I could be considered irresponsible.
Because an overstocked tank CAN work is no excuse to not be responsible (which I think I'm being), but what if someone didn't have the option to get a bigger tank? Would you honestly tell them killing their fish is a better idea than a few extra water changes? I'd rather see them do the water changes. Alot more people see these threads other than the threadstarter. Like I said, it's only information. NOT very nicely put, Sully!
 
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Not nicely put? I posted like several others to the question "can you overstock a tank if there is extra filtration?"

I did not insult anyone. Basically provided some issues that develop as a result of overstocking. Certainly never even addressed your tank laughingbuddah. No insults even. I guess we all have our own style of writing. I don't often try to sugar coat things. Even the sappy posts can be misinterpreted by someone. just as the previous one was. An opinion was requested. an opinion was provided. I did throw in some factual basis for the opinion. sometimes it makes the opinion seem more reasonable that way.
 
Honestly, Sully, that was a cheap shot and I do apologize.

The thread starter did not specify the situation. For all I know, he could have been looking to rescue a friends overgrown fish and wanted to know if it would be POSSIBLE (albeit unrecommended) to take the fish. As said before, the choice of overcrowding or death (or worse) is no choice at all. It could have been this or any other situation where overcrowding would be a much better fate. It's just information.
 
laffingbuddha, imho you are taking what Sully said out of context and assuming he is pointing a finger at you.

He is not.

He is addressing the original question, not your specific setup. Like you said, other people are reading this thread. NEWIBES are reading this thread. Is this something that a newbie, with no idea on how to properly maintain a stocked tank, should try to do? I think not!

Both sides of the coin must be presented if anyone is going to make an informed decision. Sully has spoken, as best any human can, from the fishes point of view and that point of view, IMHO, is what overstocking is all about! The fish are the ones that may suffer, not the person keeping the fish.

I do not agree with your stocking, however, I did not and will not bash you for it. You are obviously not a newbie and seem to have everything under control. You also intend on upgrading. Doing what you have done is your perogative.

What I do take into exception is the recommending to other people that they can do this. THAT, imho, is not responsible fish keeping. Most people *cannot* maintain an overstocked tank in such a manner that the fish do not suffer nor stunt.

My 2 cents
Roan
 
laffingbuddha said:
Honestly, Sully, that was a cheap shot and I do apologize.
Click to expand...
Geez. Thanks a LOT! The least you could have done is apologized AFTER I finished posting my lengthy tirade.

Some people!

I am, of course, joking ;)
Roan
 
Don't get me wrong, you guys are really cool and it's great to hear other opinions. It's just that I differ from most in the way that I WOULD recommend to someone that they SHOULD do this (keep an open mind about raising large fish). Everyone is so quick to scare people of the disadvantages to raising large fish. If you're a responsible person, you could very quickly learn to care for an oversized setup. Learn the chemistry and illnesses, learn the products and what they do and learn some species' bios. Any competent person could do pretty good with that. I mean, even if a (competent) 12 year old kid had a 300g, couldn't he vac with a stepstool? Couldn't he still change the filters? If a 2' fish jumped out while feeding, couldn't he grab a net and put him back? I've seen kids under 12 deal with 3'+ saltwater fish on a fishing boat.
Too many people are scared of big tanks. They're too quick to just get rid of their pets rather than keep up with upgrades. I commend Watermelon for going ahead with his 125 and I hope, down the line when he sees the ease of care, he'll follow into the 150+ category, too.
I am a blue collar 50 hr/wk guy. I find there's more than enough time in my day to devote to my tanks. Why discourage anyone from going large if they're so inclined? I mean, c'mon, do you guys really think these freshwater tanks are that difficult? Like I said, I really keep up on my chemistry (THE most important thing in fishkeeping), but other than that, there's not much to it: scrub this for a minute, change this media basket, etc.
I don't mean to sound preachy, but there's not enough people out there enjoying the excitement that the bigger species can give.
I never recommended my setup, but simply stated that it worked. My tank may have been temporary for a long time (since 6 months ago when they were a lot smaller), but, as the new one's coming, it's still temporary. I don't have the money that some have and I'm doin' the best I can for my buddies, hopefully they're willing to show me a tad of patience... :o
 
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This, temporarily, doesn't seem like it's making the fish too uncomfortable.

IMGP1927sm[1].JPG
 
i have a silver arowana, in the 180. and i know its a small tank for it, those fish like to swim and right now hes moving in circles. they are not like bettas or killies that come for little pools, these guys are from one of the largest freshwater bodies in the world. all im saying is i like to give my animals whatever i can and sometimes more; thats when the credit cards come in. the arowana is overstocking it for me cause i have 3 red points in a 60, smaller fish in another sixty. even my birds are comfy with a pair of finches in a 6x4x6 cage in fact thats the smallest birdcage i own and i have over 50 of them. want to see the kennel my old chihuahua used to travel in?

i am not saying your fish are healthy. but you cant stuff more in there just because you have better filtration. you will give newbies the wrong impression; especially when more filter ratings are a little optomisistic, and the first poster's filtration is nowhere as good as a couple hang on powerfilters or a big wet/dry.
 
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